Why is Monsters Reflect Damage map mod still a thing?

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CPTBRUMBL3Z wrote:

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adghar wrote:

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Why is Monsters Reflect Damage map mod still a thing?

Because there are multiple strategies to deal with this mod.

+ Yugul Pantheon brings you to 105% reduced reflected damage taken, which for Elemental Damage would only cause you to take reflected damage when Shocked (or possibly some obscure increased damage taken sources like Essences, I'm not sure). If you're playing a Physical build and/or would like to be warded against Shock (+Vulnerability if physical), you can take further reduced reflected damage taken from the Passive tree and/or Influenced items.

Bad example, especially when playing SSF, and not everyone is in a position to hot swap a ring just for one map mod since it could be giving them crucial resists or stats. If they really want to keep the mod, it needs to work mechanically like reflect rares. This isn't a game where thorns on enemies makes any sense because it's about mob density and clear speed. Can't clear shit if you die from killing 5 whole white mobs. No other mod immediately shuts down a good half of the game's builds.

Yeah w/e I swapped whole damn chest in Ritual because I needed over 120% due to some increased on me...


I like mod and actually think it should appear at random in the field so player have to build in for it. Would slow down power creep.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

This thread has literally explained why it's not black/white and you try to claim it is. It's not. There are ways to run it by changing your equipment or passives. That's not "ignoring" it.

When some with "unaffected by reflect" gets the mod, it's bonus to the map's quantity and mob density. It's not "ignored".

This is why i generally play trapper. Can run all mods but a bit slower than a lot of stuff. If its no regen just throw in a life and mana flask if you need to if you cant sustain it but tinkerskin has been a great addition to the game.

Personally i find Temporal Chains the least productive especially since ailment immunities are soo easy to get now. Temporal Chains used to be brutal for extra cold maps if you got frozen but now it doesnt matter because ailments wont get extended via Temporal Chains.

It exists purely to "slow you down", when in reality it only slows down the already slower clearing builds, not the fast clearers.

The biggest issue here is that unless you have build that can ignore reflect by design, it's simply not worth the hassle to run the reflect maps. The anti-reflect nodes are subpar in other effects so it's either 6 regrets or permanently losing some power in your build and Sibyl has IIR penalties and is overall crap ring, causing your build to lose chunk of other defenses that you usually get from ring.

So even if there are ways to deal with reflect, overall the most effective measure is to reroll the map.

Edit: sorry, fixed a few things.

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ExiledSarin wrote:

The biggest issue here is that unless you have build that can ignore reflect by design, it's simply not worth the hassle to run the reflect maps. The anti-reflect nodes are subpar in other effects so it's either 6 regrets or permanently losing some power in your build and Sibyl has IIR penalties and is overall crap ring, causing your build to lose chunk of other defenses that you usually get from ring.

So even if there are ways to deal with reflect, overall the most effective measure is to reroll the map.

Edit: sorry, fixed a few things.

It's worth is SSF especially if maps are hard to come by. You're not just gonna trash a 155/55 vaaled reflect map... It's worth it to run uber atziri. But yeah in general you are correct that's why it should be randomized and any mob may have it so you gotta build in for it. ...makes lame traps/mines more compelling... or have to make futher compromises on gear to account for it which slows power creep.

Value of reflect in high tier maps is 18% and goes up to 22% with fully unlocked atlas.


For a moment let's pretend player is using various ways to achieve 99% reduction of reflected damage taken while having 7k life.


Max total damage player can deal without killing himself is:
7k : 0,22 : 0,01 = 3,2kk

This means if you are facing:
1) 10 enemies at once you can deal less than 320k dmg in single hit
2) 20 eniemies - 160k
3) 40 enemies - 80k
...


And let's not forget that in this scenario we only care about single source of damage - reflect, healing and other damage sources are ignored.

Conclusion
You are either immune to reflect and ignore mechanic completly or die instantly because no amount of reflect damage reduction will save you.

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karoollll2534 wrote:

Value of reflect in high tier maps is 18% and goes up to 22% with fully unlocked atlas.


For a moment let's pretend player is using various ways to achieve 99% reduction of reflected damage taken while having 7k life.


Max total damage player can deal without killing himself is:
7k : 0,22 : 0,01 = 3,2kk

This means if you are facing:
1) 10 enemies at once you can deal less than 320k dmg in single hit
2) 20 eniemies - 160k
3) 40 enemies - 80k
...


And let's not forget that in this scenario we only care about single source of damage - reflect, healing and other damage sources are ignored.

Conclusion
You are either immune to reflect and ignore mechanic completly or die instantly because no amount of reflect damage reduction will save you.

Back when we had instant leech and much less DPS it was a more interesting mechanic. You could do reflect slowly and watch your health bar going crazy..You basically had to use flask and moderation in play well... but spin carelessly into a pack of 40 and boom - dead.

It's a bad design because it's a binary system. You either die instantly or it has no impact to you at all. The whole game feels like it. So many bosses I don't even fully know the mechanics to defeat them, I just farm enough currency, get a big enough DPS number in PoB and proceed to one shot them, before they do it to me.

Also, reflect would be ok if they wrap it inside some specific type of contents, for example in some MMORPGs you have to deal with similar mechanic in some specific dungeons, so if you decide to do it you know what to expect. But yeah it's wrapped inside an RNG system along with other stupid mods just to make the game more frustrating.

At the end of the day, you vote by choosing whether or not to spend your money/time to play. I play less and obviously won't spend a cent on this product like I used to, unless I see some significant changes that would improve my experience playing this game. There are many other great games and life has so much more options for everybody.

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Xavathos wrote:

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DoEFotGS wrote:

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adghar wrote:

Because there are multiple strategies to deal with this mod.

No.

GGG just like to watch when somebody die on HC because did not noticed reflect in wall of text on mods description.

Well, aren't you a ray of sunshine..
How do you even know this?

"Didn't notice" is a poor excuse, because that's never what happens. You either read the mods, or you don't. There's no "noticing" involved.

u never just glance over the mods and happen to miss something? kind of doubt it making mistakes is what humans do

I deal with reflect (unidentified & identified maps) with reeolling the watchstone(s) till i get the reflect immunity affix.

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Xavathos wrote:

"Didn't notice" is a poor excuse, because that's never what happens.

It happened a lot of times on different person streams. For example, Zizaran was died a few times because of that.