why not just make harvest craft tradeable ?

The first thing GGG should've done -and they didn't- was make Harvest crafts untradable.

Second should'be been make groves area wise non-targetable to be non-farmable, which they didn't.

Third should've been to raise horticraft space.

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SisterBlister wrote:

Perfectly for real.

As the top end can anyway trade harvest crafts via TFT, any balancing changes which tencent feels are merited will happen.

The fact that more casual people could also trade such crafts (at a much lower rate due to the exalts involved) will make no further difference to the balance considerations.

You realize that TFT is not full-proof and you can still get scammed? With trading orbs this gets eliminated so its not only good for casuals but for everybody.

I won't even comment on the last paragraph. GGG themselves disagree with you, bring this up to them.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

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SisterBlister wrote:

Perfectly for real.

As the top end can anyway trade harvest crafts via TFT, any balancing changes which tencent feels are merited will happen.

The fact that more casual people could also trade such crafts (at a much lower rate due to the exalts involved) will make no further difference to the balance considerations.

You realize that TFT is not full-proof and you can still get scammed? With trading orbs this gets eliminated so its not only good for casuals but for everybody.

I won't even comment on the last paragraph. GGG themselves disagree with you, bring this up to them.

Yes, that was what I wrote in my first reply:

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SisterBlister wrote:

...
As long as harvest crafts are tradable at all, they should be tradable with in-game tools. Everything else just benefits third parties and scamming assholes without actually limiting the traders.

One could almost think that the point is to allow scamming.

As to "GGG themselves disagree with the last paragraph": What do you mean? That tencent don't want you to trade? Trade is more deeply ingrained in PoE than anything else. And the fact they released (paid) trade tabs speaks volumes as to the coherence of tencent's view on trading.

Yes, and making trading easier will only make the creation of godly items easier, something we are not going for.

Thats backwards. Its not about whether or not to trade, its about the ease of trading and how it, according to GGG, will break the game's balance because it'll make great items easier to acquire. Think of how easy multiple 6 tier 1 affix items appear on the marker, it'll be much easier if trading crafts is implemented and as I said this is something we are not going for.

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theD4nk0wl wrote:

No dude, you absolutely made those numbers up. The person that buys and stocks 20-30 of those crafts for you to find is going to inflate the price compared to single offers, they wouldn't be listed in the bulk item exchange, you'd find one or two people listing that amount immediately on trade, they likely won't be available, and you'll sit on live search buying off anyone that lists more than 2 at once until, maybe, someone finally lists a real quantity and is willing to sell it to you.

You can't be serious... Do you think that buying 30 beasts inflate any prices? Like, what?! xD
Reasonable people trade only in bulk -_- No wonder that trade is tedious for you if you don't even know basics.

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theD4nk0wl wrote:

If you weren't able to "get rich" this league trading on discord I would be very concerned about one's confidence in taking advantage of "tradeable" harvest crafts. The difference in time between buying your crafts from trade vs on discord would be, yet again, insignificant. The rest of my points stand and seem to have been seconded to some extent since I replied last.

"weren't able to "get rich"" while my exalts were doing brrrr this league comming out from harvest and atlas printing machines xD They could do brrr faster with your tradable harvest orbs! ;)
You're proving my point - casuals don't have a slightest clue how easy it will be to abuse tradable via orb harvest crafts.

You only think about few chaos orbs you can get from selling harvest crafts, but missing bigger picture, how huge profit elite will get from it :P

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Yes, and making trading easier will only make the creation of godly items easier, something we are not going for.

But they think that if they will get few chaos orbs it will bring them closer to the elites :D

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Yes, and making trading easier will only make the creation of godly items easier...

My whole point is: Not significantly at the top end, where the top items are created. The people with currency to spare already traded for all their harvest crafting shots. You may find a tiny percentage of really self-crafted GG items, but the vast majority was created by trading for the crafts.
The effort involved in creating such an item is not limited by how easy it is to trade, but by how much currency you need to grind or trade for to buy the crafts others find.

So while harder trades does slow down this process a little bit, it has much more consequential negative side effects:

- Time which could have been used enjoying yourself killing monsters is wasted in unresponsive/scammy/hugely disruptive trade interactions, all of which are accomplished with much more comfort and ease by bots than by humans. Trading is trivially easy, and I actually prefer encountering trading bots when looking to exchange currencies, as they are fast and responsive and never AFK/busy/whatever.

- Scamming is rampant. While this is also a barrier to trade, it's hard to think of an ethically more shitty barrier.

- External tools give their users huge advantages over those players who don't favour the idea of such tools.

No, trading just cannot be done half-arsed. Either you embrace it fully (as tencent has done with, for example, trade tabs) or you cut it out completely.
Cutting trade out completely is impossibel and undesirable. Trading done well can be an enjoyable part of argps. No trade would mean account bound items, else drop-trading like in the early 90s results.

If harvest crafting would not allow for the top tier mods (like bench crafting), tencent could make all crafts tradable without shifting the top power level. This would be a much cleaner and easier solution.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

...something we are not going for...

Who is this "we" you are talking about? Do you represent the majority of players? Or tencent? Or the small section of players who benefit from bad trading mechanics? Or who?

Lol yes, often times in trading on path you'll get charged a bit of a premium for a single bulk trade. Why? How could I possibly be serious? Because the entire other half of the conversion about trade being intentionally tedious, so much so that it supposedly slows gear progression to a meaningful degree?

You think I care about a few chaos orbs? I think you're part of the group that "doesn't have a clue".

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theD4nk0wl wrote:

Lol yes, often times in trading on path you'll get charged a bit of a premium for a single bulk trade.

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theD4nk0wl wrote:

You think I care about a few chaos orbs?

You do.

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If harvest crafting would not allow for the top tier mods (like bench crafting), tencent could make all crafts tradable without shifting the top power level. This would be a much cleaner and easier solution.

Finally something I can agree with. I have no problem with harvest crafting going up to tier 3 like bench crafting. I imagine it'd be fine to turn it into orbs or increase the limit of the storage too.

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Who is this "we" you are talking about? Do you represent the majority of players? Or tencent? Or the small section of players who benefit from bad trading mechanics? Or who?

We as me, you and everyone else, the whole game. Clearly GGG have their fundamentals and are enforcing them, doesn't matter what part of the community wants.

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Nomancs wrote:

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theD4nk0wl wrote:

Lol yes, often times in trading on path you'll get charged a bit of a premium for a single bulk trade.

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theD4nk0wl wrote:

You think I care about a few chaos orbs?

You do.

Lol. sick necro bud. That have like 4k es?

Based on how you've talked and then finally looking at your gear.. what a joke.

Making the remaining (post nerf) harvest crafts trade-able items would have little impact on the rate of gearing compared to leaving the exact same trading strictly on discord. The tedium already in place for trade is only slightly more difficult than using a discord platform or sharing within guilds. Further, the tedium on trading in general is insignificant compared to the power of harvest in any form, trade-able or not. The trade manifesto is as good of a joke as you are noman.