why not just make harvest craft tradeable ?

Taking into consideration how much crafts will show up on the market:
Average Joe don't know how to craft, so he will sell his crafts. Will Average Joe benefit from harvest trading - only a little bit (because a lot of other Joes will be selling too), I would say probably few c per garden if he isn't lucky.
On the other hand, people who know how to craft (so called "elite") will just buy in bulk even reforges to get really good stuff, and since how much crafts there will be on the market, they can make a lot more gear than now. They will mostly craft items to sell them to Average Joe for couple of ex. So Joe is getting couple of c, elite is getting couple of ex.
There will be more gear on the market, so it will be a bit cheaper, Average Joe will be happy to buy some chest or boots, but soon GGG will balance the game around it and Average Joe will turn into Angry Crying Joe. Elite will be happy because they will not have to give their "200ex items" into some strangers hands to get an upgrade, so they would safely tune up their gear a bit more.

Casuals will still not be able to craft, will still spend currency to buy items, but elite will have easier access to harvest crafts.

This is why I predict that this idea would give merely a couple of c to casuals, but the same casuals will generate multiple ex for elites. I already know how I could made a lot of ex buying crafts.

This is why some people are poor in PoE - they just think, that if they will get few c from harvest, it will benefit them but don't know that they will just do cheap work for elite and boost it by a lot .
Casulas will end up losing more than gaining few c.

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Nomancs wrote:

Taking into consideration how much crafts will show up on the market:
Average Joe don't know how to craft, so he will sell his crafts. Will Average Joe benefit from harvest trading - only a little bit (because a lot of other Joes will be selling too), I would say probably few c per garden if he isn't lucky.
On the other hand, people who know how to craft (so called "elite") will just buy in bulk even reforges to get really good stuff, and since how much crafts there will be on the market, they can make a lot more gear than now. They will mostly craft items to sell them to Average Joe for couple of ex. So Joe is getting couple of c, elite is getting couple of ex.
There will be more gear on the market, so it will be a bit cheaper, Average Joe will be happy to buy some chest or boots, but soon GGG will balance the game around it and Average Joe will turn into Angry Crying Joe. Elite will be happy because they will not have to give their "200ex items" into some strangers hands to get an upgrade, so they would safely tune up their gear a bit more.

Casuals will still not be able to craft, will still spend currency to buy items, but elite will have easier access to harvest crafts.

This is why I predict that this idea would give merely a couple of c to casuals, but the same casuals will generate multiple ex for elites. I already know how I could made a lot of ex buying crafts.

This is why some people are poor in PoE - they just think, that if they will get few c from harvest, it will benefit them but don't know that they will just do cheap work for elite and boost it by a lot .
Casulas will end up losing more than gaining few c.

All I'm saying is that's how the game works, we agree on that. I doubt your accuracy on those made up numbers though. Can't imagine a reforge keeping (prefix/suffix) would ever be worth a few chaos on the ex. It wasn't that long ago that ex were 50% more than they are now, the opposite happened during heist, it goes on.

You also haven't accounted for the tedium of how path of exile trade works vs the tedium of discord trade. Making harvest crafts trade-able items does not magically grant effortless access to them. How much difference in time is there really? Wanna make a number up for that too?

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theD4nk0wl wrote:

All I'm saying is that's how the game works, we agree on that. I doubt your accuracy on those made up numbers though. Can't imagine a reforge keeping (prefix/suffix) would ever be worth a few chaos on the ex. It wasn't that long ago that ex were 50% more than they are now, the opposite happened during heist, it goes on.

You also haven't accounted for the tedium of how path of exile trade works vs the tedium of discord trade. Making harvest crafts trade-able items does not magically grant effortless access to them. How much difference in time is there really? Wanna make a number up for that too?

Yes, it would grant efortless access to them, just like beasts. You can just take regular beasts as an example and that how much reforge crafts will cost (and call that a made up numbers). You already confirming my points that bad players don't understand the game - ex price in heist was predictible (and was predicted by few people here on forum, with explanations why the price will go low - printing exalts with trinkets, duh - same goes for printing money by countries and inflation raising - yet for some people here it seems to be a "made up numbers"). If you're thinking that you need to do alot of trades to get many orbs/crafts - you're very wrong because you can do ONE trade for 20-30 crafts in bulk.

PoE trade is "tedium" only for people that have no knowledge how to trade - because you can trade instantly with a little knowledge how poe trade works and how people behave - or just at least use common sence.

Sure you can ignore market behaviour, economy and game knowledge and call them made up numbers, but that would rather make you look like telling to an economic analyst that he made up those numbers, only because you don't understand much.

Often people who are just after few c don't see a larger picture, nor care about it at all - suddenly wake up and blame the elite (despite it is them who made elite richer because casuals just mindlessly wanted their few c).

If you want to go on with this idea of making me richer with all those crafts I could buy in bulk - I'm all in, but don't complain on forum after GGG buff monsters n bosses again :P

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Nomancs wrote:

If you want to go on with this idea of making me richer with all those crafts I could buy in bulk - I'm all in, but don't complain on forum after GGG buff monsters n bosses again :P

Is an inevitable monster buff that was already overdue before Harvest the only reason to nerf Harvest or make the crafts easier to trade though?

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zzang wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

If you want to go on with this idea of making me richer with all those crafts I could buy in bulk - I'm all in, but don't complain on forum after GGG buff monsters n bosses again :P

Is an inevitable monster buff that was already overdue before Harvest the only reason to nerf Harvest or make the crafts easier to trade though?

Hey mate. This is what I'm talking about - people that know the game know what to expect, I also think that I smell monster buff in the air comming soon, maybe not next league, but soon.
Yes, harvest is one of the major problems lately, making it tradable will make harvest nerfed more and/or monster buff come sooner/stronger.

A lot of casuals just want free few c not knowing about the consequences. They miss bigger picture than tip of their nose. Elite will be fine ;)

I don't know how to craft, nor I attempt to craft other than free chaos spam on clusters / belts.

As long as I can sell what I find on TFT, it's fine. Free currency so I can buy a nice unique 6L and have fun :)

TFT is less spammy than trading through dysfunctional and overloaded trade API and overall more pleasant experience when compared to poe.com/trade.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

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SisterBlister wrote:

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Wouldn't this make harvest even more powerful because it'll be more accessible to the general public?

No, it would not make it more powerful. The same power would just be accessible to more people. Those are two very different things because of the hugely different consequences they have.

Are you for real? Do you not understand that GGG themselves refuse to make trading more accessible because it will break the balance in their own game?

Perfectly for real.

As the top end can anyway trade harvest crafts via TFT, any balancing changes which tencent feels are merited will happen.

The fact that more casual people could also trade such crafts (at a much lower rate due to the exalts involved) will make no further difference to the balance considerations.

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SisterBlister wrote:

The fact that more casual people could also trade such crafts (at a much lower rate due to the exalts involved) will make no further difference to the balance considerations.

They would nerf harvest to the ground before turning it tradable.

No dude, you absolutely made those numbers up. The person that buys and stocks 20-30 of those crafts for you to find is going to inflate the price compared to single offers, they wouldn't be listed in the bulk item exchange, you'd find one or two people listing that amount immediately on trade, they likely won't be available, and you'll sit on live search buying off anyone that lists more than 2 at once until, maybe, someone finally lists a real quantity and is willing to sell it to you.

If you weren't able to "get rich" this league trading on discord I would be very concerned about one's confidence in taking advantage of "tradeable" harvest crafts. The difference in time between buying your crafts from trade vs on discord would be, yet again, insignificant. The rest of my points stand and seem to have been seconded to some extent since I replied last.

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Nomancs wrote:

Taking into consideration how much crafts will show up on the market:
Average Joe don't know how to craft, so he will sell his crafts. Will Average Joe benefit from harvest trading - only a little bit (because a lot of other Joes will be selling too), I would say probably few c per garden if he isn't lucky.
On the other hand, people who know how to craft (so called "elite") will just buy in bulk even reforges to get really good stuff, and since how much crafts there will be on the market, they can make a lot more gear than now. They will mostly craft items to sell them to Average Joe for couple of ex. So Joe is getting couple of c, elite is getting couple of ex.
There will be more gear on the market, so it will be a bit cheaper, Average Joe will be happy to buy some chest or boots, but soon GGG will balance the game around it and Average Joe will turn into Angry Crying Joe. Elite will be happy because they will not have to give their "200ex items" into some strangers hands to get an upgrade, so they would safely tune up their gear a bit more.

Casuals will still not be able to craft, will still spend currency to buy items, but elite will have easier access to harvest crafts.

This is why I predict that this idea would give merely a couple of c to casuals, but the same casuals will generate multiple ex for elites. I already know how I could made a lot of ex buying crafts.

This is why some people are poor in PoE - they just think, that if they will get few c from harvest, it will benefit them but don't know that they will just do cheap work for elite and boost it by a lot .
Casulas will end up losing more than gaining few c.

I've seen people arguing back and forth in this thread and I think most of them are mostly wrong (one guy said that people in discord trading crafts were still casual wtf). This, I think sums things up realistically. I have to argue with one point.

I play this game a lot. I consider myself a casual player. I usually cap at around lvl 95 because I die too often to gain exp. Could I get to 100? Sure, If I'm cautious, careful, join a guild, create parties, whatever, but I just don't care that much to do this. I've never gotten 40/40. I usually don't get 36.

Trading and crafting in this game is horrible. Just the worst. I think people forget just how bad it is or they've never played a game that has good crafting / trading. As such, most of the time, I don't mind being a casual guy selling shit for a few chaos. I personally try to stay above 5c later in the game as I can't be bothered having my game interrupted for less. I can't stand tabbing in and out, spamming chat with whispers trying to buy something. Ridiculous.

With regards to harvest, I just started getting into it this league, and it's still a pain in the ass. I don't use Discord. I already spend too much time not playing the game looking up shit online, I don't want to deal with that crap. I've been trying to craft this one staff and still haven't hit the starting T1 mod after @2500 alts. What a monumental waste of time. And that's before spending exalts on orbs of this or that and bench mods. You need to have a crafting plan that's the size of a short story.

I've also crafted a few other things, but need the harvest crafts to make them better. Unless I'm trading on discord, this is nearly impossible as the frequency of the grove and crafts that I need are very slim. So I put that character aside after spending @50 exalts. THAT ISN'T FUN! And it's stressful.

So, yeah, I wouldn't mind selling harvest crafts for whatever C and just buying gear later when I start making exalts. Let some other person deal with the crafting. Maybe I'll dip my toes into trying to craft myself later when it's more accessible. I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way.