Wouldn't this make harvest even more powerful because it'll be more accessible to the general public?
No, it would not make it more powerful. The same power would just be accessible to more people. Those are two very different things because of the hugely different consequences they have.
Are you for real? Do you not understand that GGG themselves refuse to make trading more accessible because it will break the balance in their own game?
I mentioned this once before. Talking about trade (in general) having an effect on the game based on accessibility in the middle of harvest 2.0 is a joke. Easier trade < harvest in any form; but trade breaks game balance? hm.
Biggest compliments for my crafted items - "bs, they must have been RMT'ed"
I'm disabled, I have rare case of semperduravera, so I can write things that may look rude, but it is because of disability - I'm forced to tell truth using words you may not like.
Last edited by Nomancs#6176 on Apr 1, 2021, 5:57:32 AM
lol? yeah I read that years ago, didn't agree before harvest, now it's really funny.
"
theD4nk0wl wrote:
but trade breaks game balance? hm.
LOL So why did you asked if you know the answer from trade manifesto already?
Biggest compliments for my crafted items - "bs, they must have been RMT'ed"
I'm disabled, I have rare case of semperduravera, so I can write things that may look rude, but it is because of disability - I'm forced to tell truth using words you may not like.
Last edited by Nomancs#6176 on Apr 1, 2021, 6:11:02 AM
LOL So why did you asked if you know the answer from trade manifesto already?
I'm really not sure what you're missing about my point. What I "asked" was just part of that point, I know perfectly well GGG's excuse for doing nothing for trade over the last few years. Meanwhile Harvest, which has been released twice now, is absurd in terms of gearing power, making items you would have never seen on trade otherwise. "But trade breaks the game?" get it now dude?
LOL So why did you asked if you know the answer from trade manifesto already?
I'm really not sure what you're missing about my point. What I "asked" was just part of that point, I know perfectly well GGG's excuse for doing nothing for trade over the last few years. Meanwhile Harvest, which has been released twice now, is absurd in terms of gearing power, making items you would have never seen on trade otherwise. "But trade breaks the game?" get it now dude?
If you're saying that trading harvest crafts would be super OP and will make elite even more rich, and force GGG to balance the game around them selling more common OP items than yes, I get it.
Biggest compliments for my crafted items - "bs, they must have been RMT'ed"
I'm disabled, I have rare case of semperduravera, so I can write things that may look rude, but it is because of disability - I'm forced to tell truth using words you may not like.
If you're saying that trading harvest crafts would be super OP and will make elite even more rich, and force GGG to balance the game around them selling more common OP items than yes, I get it.
That's a cute regurgitation. First off I was replying to Snow and the other guy about trade in general, not specifically trading harvest crafts. Though because that is the topic of this thread I'll go one more post with you.
While it's clear you're very good at reciting things you've read or linking old manifesto's I'm having my doubts you've thought about the issue in the slightest.
We'd have to define where the line between elite and non elite is which is too subjective to actually do. However, I'd be willing to bet a fair portion of (by most peoples perception) non-elite players were and are already active in trading crafts on the discord channel.
The above aside. Knowing the nerfs coming to harvest it's a lot closer to being in line with the rest of game. It's still impressive, reroll suffix/prefix is traditionally a few exalts per try as one example. The nerfs will at least slow the market crunch on certain meta items like the fan favorite explodes chests. This is a healthy thing in my opinion, and even goes in favour of the manifesto you so kindly linked me earlier.
So as far as the remaining crafts being trade-able in future leagues. Yes, they should be. The issues with the leagues "fresh market" and people gearing too quickly is a result of the strength of the crafts, and less the accessibility to them. I understand what I just stated can be argued, if everyone had access to 100 of the crafts they needed rather than 1 of the crafts they needed then of course gearing would be sped up.
The difference is we aren't looking at factors of 100 by allowing these crafts to be trade-able items. The trade was rampant enough on discord, the market for them developed and even in light of the nerfs has not changed much. So to get 100 crafts it would cost an amount subject to the market just like anything else in this game from fossils to beasts to essence. Making them trade-able is insignificant compared to having it in the game in the first place.
Lastly, making the harvest crafts available to people through trade in game rather than on a discord does the opposite of making the "elite more rich". It's the non-elite, the much newer players, the players with very little time, that are either unaware of the discord, or don't have the time to waste trading on discord. Bringing these craft trades in game allows everyone the same opportunity to gain access to them, not just the "elite" trading on a discord channel.
If you're saying that trading harvest crafts would be super OP and will make elite even more rich, and force GGG to balance the game around them selling more common OP items than yes, I get it.
That's a cute regurgitation. First off I was replying to Snow and the other guy about trade in general, not specifically trading harvest crafts. Though because that is the topic of this thread I'll go one more post with you.
While it's clear you're very good at reciting things you've read or linking old manifesto's I'm having my doubts you've thought about the issue in the slightest.
We'd have to define where the line between elite and non elite is which is too subjective to actually do. However, I'd be willing to bet a fair portion of (by most peoples perception) non-elite players were and are already active in trading crafts on the discord channel.
The above aside. Knowing the nerfs coming to harvest it's a lot closer to being in line with the rest of game. It's still impressive, reroll suffix/prefix is traditionally a few exalts per try as one example. The nerfs will at least slow the market crunch on certain meta items like the fan favorite explodes chests. This is a healthy thing in my opinion, and even goes in favour of the manifesto you so kindly linked me earlier.
So as far as the remaining crafts being trade-able in future leagues. Yes, they should be. The issues with the leagues "fresh market" and people gearing too quickly is a result of the strength of the crafts, and less the accessibility to them. I understand what I just stated can be argued, if everyone had access to 100 of the crafts they needed rather than 1 of the crafts they needed then of course gearing would be sped up.
The difference is we aren't looking at factors of 100 by allowing these crafts to be trade-able items. The trade was rampant enough on discord, the market for them developed and even in light of the nerfs has not changed much. So to get 100 crafts it would cost an amount subject to the market just like anything else in this game from fossils to beasts to essence. Making them trade-able is insignificant compared to having it in the game in the first place.
Lastly, making the harvest crafts available to people through trade in game rather than on a discord does the opposite of making the "elite more rich". It's the non-elite, the much newer players, the players with very little time, that are either unaware of the discord, or don't have the time to waste trading on discord. Bringing these craft trades in game allows everyone the same opportunity to gain access to them, not just the "elite" trading on a discord channel.
I do agree with majority of your post. Thing is, harvest still have some very powerful and OP crafts - majority of casuals don't really have the knowledge how to use harvest after nerf so the biggest beneficiaries from tradeable crafts will be elite. I already can think of how much I could earn by just using reforge(targetable chaos) crafts - majority of casuals will skip them now and after harvest nerf, but if it would be tradable - they will collect and sell those reforge crafts, so I could buy them in bulk cheaply, make OP jewels and sell them for multiple exalts to same casuals that sold crafts to me. Only real beneficiaries will be elite, because they would store/buy crafts for crafting sessions (unlike wasting time for all reforges in the garden, like now). Right now we need to double check who are we trading with, is seller not going to scam, ask for collateral - it takes some time, slows crafting process by a bit. Tradable harvest would make this instant.
To summ it up:
- If someone buys craft, it means he can benefit from it.
- If he can do it without wasting time for checking seller, getting collateral, giving item for crafting process - he will do it a lot faster.
- Who will craft - mostly people with crafting knowledge.
- no risk in giving someone else your item - who do you think will have it easier, guy with 1ex item or guy with 200ex item?
- Will it be harder to make OP items after harvest nerf? Yes, but if you could buy crafts like orbs, you could just buy 100x crafts, even with 1% chance for really OP items, crafters will get it easier. This would compensate the nerf for people who craft items for sell.
- with just share amount of crafts, there will be more good items, so soon GGG would balance the game difficulty around it.
Who will benefit? Elite only, casuals will be just like miners, digging crafts for the rich.
I would happly abuse this system for my own profit, soon after GGG would buff monsters and bosses, and I would love that but casuals would cry again that the gap between elite and poor casuals is growing bigger again (by their own making).
Biggest compliments for my crafted items - "bs, they must have been RMT'ed"
I'm disabled, I have rare case of semperduravera, so I can write things that may look rude, but it is because of disability - I'm forced to tell truth using words you may not like.
Last edited by Nomancs#6176 on Apr 1, 2021, 7:32:36 AM
If you're saying that trading harvest crafts would be super OP and will make elite even more rich, and force GGG to balance the game around them selling more common OP items than yes, I get it.
That's a cute regurgitation. First off I was replying to Snow and the other guy about trade in general, not specifically trading harvest crafts. Though because that is the topic of this thread I'll go one more post with you.
While it's clear you're very good at reciting things you've read or linking old manifesto's I'm having my doubts you've thought about the issue in the slightest.
We'd have to define where the line between elite and non elite is which is too subjective to actually do. However, I'd be willing to bet a fair portion of (by most peoples perception) non-elite players were and are already active in trading crafts on the discord channel.
The above aside. Knowing the nerfs coming to harvest it's a lot closer to being in line with the rest of game. It's still impressive, reroll suffix/prefix is traditionally a few exalts per try as one example. The nerfs will at least slow the market crunch on certain meta items like the fan favorite explodes chests. This is a healthy thing in my opinion, and even goes in favour of the manifesto you so kindly linked me earlier.
So as far as the remaining crafts being trade-able in future leagues. Yes, they should be. The issues with the leagues "fresh market" and people gearing too quickly is a result of the strength of the crafts, and less the accessibility to them. I understand what I just stated can be argued, if everyone had access to 100 of the crafts they needed rather than 1 of the crafts they needed then of course gearing would be sped up.
The difference is we aren't looking at factors of 100 by allowing these crafts to be trade-able items. The trade was rampant enough on discord, the market for them developed and even in light of the nerfs has not changed much. So to get 100 crafts it would cost an amount subject to the market just like anything else in this game from fossils to beasts to essence. Making them trade-able is insignificant compared to having it in the game in the first place.
Lastly, making the harvest crafts available to people through trade in game rather than on a discord does the opposite of making the "elite more rich". It's the non-elite, the much newer players, the players with very little time, that are either unaware of the discord, or don't have the time to waste trading on discord. Bringing these craft trades in game allows everyone the same opportunity to gain access to them, not just the "elite" trading on a discord channel.
Spoiler
I do agree with majority of your post. Thing is, harvest still have some very powerful and OP crafts - majority of casuals don't really have the knowledge how to use harvest after nerf so the biggest beneficiaries from tradeable crafts will be elite. I already can think of how much I could earn by just using reforge(targetable chaos) crafts - majority of casuals will skip them now and after harvest nerf, but if it would be tradable - they will collect and sell those reforge crafts, so I could buy them in bulk cheaply, make OP jewels and sell them for multiple exalts to same casuals that sold crafts to me. Only real beneficiaries will be elite, because they would store/buy crafts for crafting sessions (unlike wasting time for all reforges in the garden, like now). Right now we need to double check who are we trading with, is seller not going to scam, ask for collateral - it takes some time, slows crafting process by a bit. Tradable harvest would make this instant.
To summ it up:
- If someone buys craft, it means he can benefit from it.
- If he can do it without wasting time for checking seller, getting collateral, giving item for crafting process - he will do it a lot faster.
- Who will craft - mostly people with crafting knowledge.
- no risk in giving someone else your item - who do you think will have it easier, guy with 1ex item or guy with 200ex?
- Will it be harder to make OP items after harvest nerf? Yes, but if you could buy crafts like orbs, you could just buy 100x crafts, even with 1% chance for really OP items, crafters will get it easier. This would compensate the nerf for people who craft items for sell.
- with just share amount of crafts, there will be more good items, so soon GGG would balance the game difficulty around it.
Who will benefit? Elite only, casuals will be just like miners, digging crafts for the rich.
I would happly abuse this system for my own profit, soon after GGG would buff monsters and bosses, and I would love that but casuals would cry again that the gap between elite and poor casuals is growing bigger again (by their own making).
Spoiler
Ok, so just like you said, I don't disagree with the concept of what you're saying.
Thing is, what you described is the entire non-ssf game anyways. I mentioned that the nerfs are definitely going to help bring harvest more in line. I won't argue that there is more tedium to trading these crafts on discord vs making them trade-able in game, but I disagree that it strictly benefits the elite.
Again, what you described is true for everything that can be traded now. The majority farms what they can hoping to buy upgrades, the power players are the ones using the resources to make those upgrades. There isn't a specific beneficiary here, rather, allowing the nerfed harvest crafts to be tradeable items simply levels the playing field.
The exact same thing is happening with harvest right now, exactly as you described, minus that tedium of using discord. Again, you have to consider the significance of each theory, rather than just describing how the theory can be true. What I mean here, the tedium for the elite to trade on discord is an insignificant disadvantage compared to the currency one of your "mining players" could generate actually being able to sell the crafts he finds. Right now, the bottom end of players likely don't participate at all in harvest craft trading, they're likely using crafts on items that will never generate currency for them, or even take them much further into the game (because without trade or at least some knowledge on the crafting side of things harvest has proven to be much less strong for the non-elite than the elite in its current state. There were many comments on threads during the harvest nerf fiasco where people claimed they were already unable to do much with harvest.)
Last edited by theD4nk0wl#1273 on Apr 1, 2021, 7:39:04 AM
