Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

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ValfaderTV wrote:

Harvest crafting was the only reason why I got interested in crafting to begin with. At the time I only had about 2500+ hours in the game and had never crafted as much as a potion before.
Deterministic crafting made it easier to understand how the complex system worked and allowed me to not have to rely on other people 100% for my end-game needs. With the end of Harvest and introduction of Heist I flat out skipped a league because it lacked the mechanics that kept me engaged with the game.

Now with Ritual adding a nerfed variant of Harvest crafting to the Core game I came back and find myself enjoying the game again, with only two complaints to add to its current implementation;
- too few storable crafts in the Horticrafting station, meaning that I had to waste a lot of the rare ones on nothing, and
- no real way to target harvest crafting other than a specific Atlas region (which I am fine with) and make items that are good for personal use or trading.

You attempt to solve the latter by making the garden encounters be tradable to some extent, while at the same time removing the deterministic part of Harvest crafting, thus rendering the entire system moot in my eyes. The fact that it was deterministic meant that you could get some of the rarer mods at a reasonable price (even now as you trade for it through TFT) instead of wasting tons of currency on pure RNG.

I know you love your casino/slot machine mentality, but this is something I personally cannot stand. I can't invest the time, effort and frankly find it completely un-fun in a game that's meant to entertain me.

In short; removing deterministic crafting - especially on already influenced items - will likely mean that I stop playing for several leagues or maybe even until PoE 2.0.

Sad news overall... :-(

So let me get this straight. You played from Betrayal to Harvest without the slightest clue how the 'complex' crafting system worked? Not even a simple bestiary flask craft? Come on dude - I don't believe that for a second and neither do you.

I think your problem is that you've invested more dollars than hours into this game (your choice btw) and you feel as though the developers must now cater to your specific needs and vision for the game. They owe you nothing and your supporter packs don't validate your opinion in any way, thankfully.

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demondisguise wrote:

So let me get this straight. You played from Betrayal to Harvest without the slightest clue how the 'complex' crafting system worked? Not even a simple bestiary flask craft? Come on dude - I don't believe that for a second and neither do you.

I think your problem is that you've invested more dollars than hours into this game (your choice btw) and you feel as though the developers must now cater to your specific needs and vision for the game. They owe you nothing and your supporter packs don't validate your opinion in any way, thankfully.

You misunderstand crafting with gambling. Beast flask craft and benchcraft are only real craft systems. Other are gamble, not craft (essence, fossils, slamming). In othe MMORPG craft is creating determenistic item with possible rolls (higher lower, probably present or missing one affix on item, but in general item is predictable). And the whole idea of crafting - prediction of the result. Show me any prediction of the result in POE crafting system even including Harvest? Answer - there is no prediction, so there is no crafting. You don't grind resources (fossils and essences are not resources, let's be honest, they are currency). So forget about craft word in PoE, there are gambles, determenistic or pure RNG.

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Zodrac wrote:

Well after reading the manifesto bout 3 times and some random posts from other players (reading through 300+ pages is a bit too much) i think they should have implemented currency costs of the harvest crafting itself

This is the worst idea ever. The problem itself is how everything is locked behind RNG layer. So 99.9% of the item dropped are useless and the chance of getting any currency worth to craft beside trading is like non existent for casual player. So unless the craft is the perfect craft and not RNG shit again, I could see it being "possible" but then again, most people wouldn't be able to pay the annul orb + exalt for every damn craft.

The trading system in this game is [Removed by Support]. 50% of the trader are AFK, 45% are scammer and price fixer and like 5% are actually going to answer.

Anyway, It was way more fun farming dock, Piety and Dominus in alpha/beta then it is now. Atleast, then you could do all content and farming the content you wanted. Now everything is blocked behind stupid and absurd exponential amount of RNG layer that it's just troublesome and annoying.

If player could just have fun in PoE instead of working like it's a damn job, PoE would be the bets game ever.

You should be able to level from delve ALONE without having to redo all the damn acts over with a new character. You shouldn't have to farm sulphite for delving. [Removed by Support]

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Zaraky wrote:

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Zodrac wrote:

Well after reading the manifesto bout 3 times and some random posts from other players (reading through 300+ pages is a bit too much) i think they should have implemented currency costs of the harvest crafting itself

This is the worst idea ever. The problem itself is how everything is locked behind RNG layer. So 99.9% of the item dropped are useless and the chance of getting any currency worth to craft beside trading is like non existent for casual player. So unless the craft is the perfect craft and not RNG shit again, I could see it being "possible" but then again, most people wouldn't be able to pay the annul orb + exalt for every damn craft.

The trading system in this game is total garbage and totally useless. 50% of the trader are AFK, 45% are scammer and price fixer and like 5% are actually going to answer.

Anyway, It was way more fun farming dock, Piety and Dominus in alpha/beta then it is now. Atleast, then you could do all content and farming the content you wanted. Now everything is blocked behind stupid and absurd exponential amount of RNG layer that it's just troublesome and annoying.

If player could just have fun in PoE instead of working like it's a damn job, PoE would be the bets game ever.

You should be able to level from delve ALONE without having to redo all the damn acts over with a new character. You shouldn't have to farm sulphite for delving. This is just retarded.

Oh well, Chris and GGG will listen to player and keep their eye shut and blind themselves to their stupid ideology.

Not only that, people who joined in the early 2010's we did because we though PoE will give us the free to create multiple different builds being able to clean the game, unlike Diablo where we were forced to play the builds the developers wanted.
WELL, 10 years have pass, and now PoE is the same or even worse crap than Diablo, because we MUST play the same 3 or 4 builds that can play the endgame lightly. Is freaking ridiculous.

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Oblachko_O wrote:

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demondisguise wrote:

So let me get this straight. You played from Betrayal to Harvest without the slightest clue how the 'complex' crafting system worked? Not even a simple bestiary flask craft? Come on dude - I don't believe that for a second and neither do you.

I think your problem is that you've invested more dollars than hours into this game (your choice btw) and you feel as though the developers must now cater to your specific needs and vision for the game. They owe you nothing and your supporter packs don't validate your opinion in any way, thankfully.

You misunderstand crafting with gambling. Beast flask craft and benchcraft are only real craft systems. Other are gamble, not craft (essence, fossils, slamming). In othe MMORPG craft is creating determenistic item with possible rolls (higher lower, probably present or missing one affix on item, but in general item is predictable). And the whole idea of crafting - prediction of the result. Show me any prediction of the result in POE crafting system even including Harvest? Answer - there is no prediction, so there is no crafting. You don't grind resources (fossils and essences are not resources, let's be honest, they are currency). So forget about craft word in PoE, there are gambles, determenistic or pure RNG.

I think you missed my point. Did you get to the word crafting and stop there? Because you sure seemed to focus on the word crafting and my post is not about crafting. Crafting crafting crafting.

This nerf is just one step back in game development showing the whole game course. Harvest is the only type on end game crafting and character development. It is the reason of Ritual League being so alive even now. I guess game online statistics next league will tell GGG that they were wrong.

Out of touch. Many way way more elegant ways to scale back harvest crafting without dumping on it from an ivory tower. Looks like it might be time to find a new game.

Harvest crafting was the only reason I came back. As a semi-casual player, I do not have the 100's of exaults required to make a good item or buy one, but what I did have was the ability to relentlessly grind for harvest drops and then slowly craft my own gear. If I find another game that isn't for gambling addicts to craft some decent gear, I will not hesitate to spend my money there. The only ones you are helping here are the streamers and standard players. Letting us make some good gear that we can only use for 3 months is not bad for the game. How many returning players did you get after harvest league?

Well Hi there.

GGG : I'm really sad.

I quit Diablo 3 because I was bored of playing hundreds if not thousands of hours and rely only on luck to get the best items possible.

And Yes, I played Diablo 3 after all the biggest fixes so I had access to what they call "crafting". And I enjoyed this part of Diablo 3 because it allowed me to change an affix on an item to get something I wanted and possibly perfect an otherwise good but not endgame item.

I enjoyed the ritual league a lot because, as a grown up adult, with a job, and with at most 1h to 3h a day of play, I could reach engame content.

I enjoyed Harvest because it allowed me, a casual player, to really try things. It allowed me to craft an item from scratch. It allowed me to plan how to craft it without having to store hundreds of currencies.

To this day, and since the start of the league, I looted 10 exalted orbs.

I can tell you i will NEVER EVER slam an exalted orb into an item, closing my eyes, to get a crappy affix I do not want.

I'd rather stop playing the game or go to standard than play a CASINO.

We are not in Las Vegas. To be clear, I'm ok with nerfing Harvest, but I'm not ok with the philosophy of "ex slamming eyes closed".

Some 1% players say "Harvest is OP we access very good items too fast".

Yes maybe. How many hours a day do they play ?

How many hours a day the average POE player plays the game ?

Really, I thought I could enjoy a good league once in a while... but I feel like you want to ban casual players for playing your game.

I've seen this game evolve since 2013, came back on occasions when I was interested in league mechanics. And now, I feel like you gave us a bone just to rip it out of our mouths.

I'm not happy with these changes. Harvest is good. The fact you can trade your crafts is... not the best thing. I understand Harvest can be seen as too powerful and I do not have the best solution to provide... but... I don't think you picked the good solution.

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