Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

Hey GGG, we are trying to have a discussion here. We are at 358 pages of discussion already, however the length of the thread isn't growing any longer. Just out of curiosity - how long would this thread be if you hadn't removed postings?

It already holds the record for the longest thread in the Development Manifesto section, doesn't it?

Be honest here Chris & GGG dev team, how many times have you actually played long enough to be able to close your eyes and slam exalts on your gear? You think your gambling crafting system is actually fun/rewarding enough to warrant 30 hours of mapping per exalt slam?

I'm not even going to mention harvest crafting here because enough people have already made the same point. I'm going to bring up the fundamentals; your approach to game design.

You have HC and SC. What I don't understand is, why don't you make your HC really stand apart from your SC mode? If you're so hell-bent on creating a 'difficult' game, focus your vision and channel that into developing hardcore. You're clearly not in the right mindset to make changes for softcore - seeing as the majority of your player-base is there.

Your lack of awareness and inflexibility holds you and the rest of GGG back. Does GGG as a business really benefit from the decisions you make? Does the majority of your player-base really enjoy the constant back-tracking after you realise something doesn't suit your vision?

Your crafting system is outdated and is not fit for purpose with the current state of the game. Currency scarcity makes it so. If I've farmed 20ex, you think I'm going to slam an exalt in hopes of T1 phys damage/T1 life? No, I don't enjoy reducing the value of my item by rolling T9 mana. I'll sell that incomplete item and buy a better version from a trader. Is that truly how you envisioned the game to be - buying an item with crafting currency? Ah wait, you probably play until T3 maps in SSF, if that. Let's face it, you're not a player, you're just in charge, tired and lost.

If you want to cater to the 1% that play SSFHC, how about you remove softcore completely? - you'll definitely face less backlash as your casual players will disappear and you won't have to backtrack on your decisions.

If you want to cater to the 1% of elite players in SC, why don't you stop going to work? Fair play if that's your vision, but don't bring your 'hardcore' game design ideologies to standard/league softcore for the majority.

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Aviryn wrote:

I'm not sure if I have ever posted on the forums before, but I feel Reddit is not where to make my voice heard. If these changes go through it will drastically decrease the fun I have playing POE. I got back into POE this league so that I could try the Harvest system. I loved it. I am an experienced player with thousands of hours but as I have grown my career I no longer have time to play for more than a couple of hours a day at most. The only reason I am still playing this league is because with Harvest I can set myself item goals that are achievable with my amount of time investment, which is still a ton of time (15 hours a week or so.) Playing for 15 hours a week is A LOT. I won't be able to play the game outside of week 2 of league start after these changes, it just won't be fun, and that was exactly how it was before Harvest for me. I will never see a good item, my character will be capped after a few days because I don't have the time to grind hundreds of exalts for incremental gains. Harvest allowed me to grind those small gains in terms of gear in a meaningful way. I don't see how this is anything but a slap in the face to players like me who don't "no-life" this game.

Just a quick FYI that GGG read reddit more than the forum. The forum is more heavily censored by the moderators due to laws in New Zealand and many negative things can be pointed at as harassment and they are removing tons of posts.

As well as they hid this thread from the main feed.

not pog

So uh, did you guys forget about the discord issue amidst all the soapboxing or..

I also wanted to ask, how is that Reddit post have about 30% upvotes, from 75% within 24 hours? Doesn’t this ring any bells? Perhaps your approach on harvest nerf isn’t the best? Please, I love this game and I hate to see what will happen within next 6 months with it, if you fellas will remain deaf. Remember, your game is not only the streamers, Varga with mirror service and no lifers. Your game is shaped by mostly casual and average crowd, and if you will chase them away, there will be no 1%rs.

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N4rk0tyk wrote:

I also wanted to ask, how is that Reddit post have about 30% upvotes, from 75% within 24 hours? Doesn’t this ring any bells? Perhaps your approach on harvest nerf isn’t the best? Please, I love this game and I hate to see what will happen within next 6 months with it, if you fellas will remain deaf. Remember, your game is not only the streamers, Varga with mirror service and no lifers. Your game is shaped by mostly casual and average crowd, and if you will chase them away, there will be no 1%rs.

Nope they won't back down end of story all your doing are tantrums.

Trade Manifesto - 2016

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HowToGusta wrote:

...

If you want to cater to the 1% of elite players in SC, why don't you stop going to work? Fair play if that's your vision, but don't bring your 'hardcore' game design ideologies to standard/league softcore for the majority.

I think you misunderstand "hardcore": in some context it is indeed the "1 life league", but generally in the context of PoE game design, it just means "harder game than casuals"

And PoE was clearly marketed, from the onset as a hardcore game, where you could die in the very first map. You cannot just then show up and demand the game to be made "easy". It is supposed to be hard (definition of what is hard may vary), but the seence of the game, its soul is that it is supposed to be a hard, unforgiving game. I may be Marmite or Vegemite, some will love it, some will hate it, but this is fine.
The game is not intended to cater for casual players. When I have too much work or family obligations, I skip a league or two, and that is fine too.

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Zepepsico wrote:

Forgot to add:

given the number of very successful leagues WITHOUT Harvest, why is everyone complaining so much? Are they saying that all the million of players who played some really engaging leagues did it while hating the game? Really? Million of masochistic players when there are alternatives?

People got a taste of power and can't let go. Grow up, you enjoyed the game without a crafting simulator, you'll enjoy it again. And if you enjoy crafting so much, there are lots of crafting games out there.

You seem to not understand the fundamental issue here.

People are not upset because they become weaker, as that is always relative if we consider that each new league will come up with a fotm build that facerolls all content, while a certain league mechanic can be abused.

What we are angry about is that a company like GGG dictates us how we have to play and this already did not go well for Blizzard with their "dont you have phones" announcement.

Maybe we just dont want to trade, maybe we just dont want to play that one meta build or abuse mechanics to get through the game? Maybe we just want to be rewarded in a former league content that we enjoyed while playing legit?

I have never been a harvest farming person, I used it mostly to get maps and zana mods. But maybe there are people who want to craft items and fully focus on that? Why take this away from them?

Same with summoner nerfs and lack of new content for that class. Why does every class get reworks and new things to play with, but summoners have only gotten a new golem some time ago, a golem that was nerfed to the ground recently. Maybe there are people who just want to play summoners, so why not let them?

GGG needs to let its playerbase play what they want, else the players will play something else.


But this is just one issue here, the other is the dependancy on trading in an ARPG.

At one point in time, D2 was all about duping runes, as Blizzard did not care about the issue RMT had become. We are moving into the same direction with GGG and GGG´s response to that is not to punish those that RMT; but everyone who doesnt and this just doesnt make sense.


Besides that, I also believe that many people are just fed up that stuff is added and taken away all the time. GGG has to act swiftly in favor of its customers, else they go somewhere else.

This manifesto is completely out of touch...

It was the FIRST league (skipped harvest league) I actually crafted items, had fun doing it, and was proud of the results. And I played most leagues, since open beta.

And none of those are close to mirror-tier, I'm a casual player. I have 200h this league, which is nothing compared to regulars, I know. Still, I could craft myself (without the discord !! Just with harvest grind and friends) some cool items and kill most bosses with my build (not even top of meta, just a cold dot vortex)

Going back to buying absolutely everything through the trade api ? Nope, count me out.