Firestorm vs Fireball Ignite

because that node now just does 15% more chaos damage, which will scale the ignite from hexblast (assuming were still talking about hexblast)

for ignite it will get scaled by its parent damage group if you have X can ignite. So for example if you wear hrimburns so your cold damage can ignite then cold damage also scales the DoT. Same for chaos in your case.

Draegnarrr, this is very confusing and is going against everything about ignite everyone is saying. Please read very bottom paragraph to prevent you getting annoyed with my understanding.

Yes it does more chaos damage, but that chaos damage is only affecting the initial hit right as its not fire? As ive been told the ignite is completely separate and only uses the skills base damage? This is similar to a more spell damage increasing what you called "parent damage group" of fireballs hit, resulting in a bigger ignite which is not how it works anymore.

So what gives? Why does Withereing Presence which increases chaos by 15% more, also affect its ignite, something is off here.


Only way what your saying is true is if spell damage doesnt have a parent group at all. I see what you are saying about cold damage affecting a ignite done by cold. So fire spell damage increases fire based ignite and its hit, likewise lightening spell damage would increase divine ire hit and its ignite if it could ignite? Secret hidden unexplained stat... :O


Edit- So basicly if you had hexblast, with chaos and archmage, increases to chaos and lightening spell damage would BOTH also increase the resulting ignite (which is doing fire damage lol). But spell damage which increases the hit of that chaos and lightening would NOT increase the ignite. Holy moly, plz correct me if im wrong.

you need to imagine it like this OP damage is a two way branch that splits immediately into base hit damage, and base ailment damage, however many modifier groups effect both and that muddies the waters.

After that its just about knowing which basket you draw modifiers from, the hit side is like this for a fire spell

spell, projectile, area, elemental, fire spell, fire, damage

for a fire spells ailment its

elemental, fire, fire over time, damage over time, damage, fire dot multi, dot multi

You learn the 2 baskets eventually and with practice know which is which, its a pain in the backside but it does kinda make sense. Keep in mind that skills only come in two real camps in PoE "attack" and "spell" its safe to assume if you see either of these it doesn't modify the ailment.


For your archmage hexblast example its like this

base damage is hexblast + archmage's lightning for hits

base damage for ailments is hexblast + archmages lightning also, because hexblast says all damage can ignite/shock/freeze

Now you need to sort your 2 baskets and this is where it gets complicated in a way but actually makes sense once your used to it.

the hit is scaled by spell, area, damage. The chaos portion by chaos, the lightning portion by lightning and elemental.

for ignite on this spell its, fire, elemental, damage, fire dot, fire dot multi, dot multi. Chaos will increase the chaos damage's share, lightning the lightnings share.

The reason most players find this complicated is because nearly everything scales the hit whilst the DoT value is hidden in the stat page or not able to be located at all in many cases.

You've written chaos spell and lightning spell damage a few times in your post btw but be careful what term you mean because lightning spell damage isn't the same as lightning damage. I've tried to roughly decipher which one you meant but as an example Herald of Ash grants more fire spell damage, this has no impact on ignite it does absolutely zip.

Sorry this got real long lol

Also as a followup if your ever curious about what goes in which basket import your guy into PoB and check the calcs tab select your skill and you can mouse over the increased and more multipliers effecting your ignite and it also tells you what their source is.

Sorry yes i meant, increases to lightening and chaos damage, not spell damage, would increase that baskets contributing ignite portion.

But the basic take away from all this is that:

A.The type of damage that starts an ignite can increase that instance of ignites damage also if its general damage*** (ex. not spell damage), even though the ignite is fire damage and works against fire resistance

B.Essentially this double dips in the manner that although the size of the hit doesnt scale the ignite, the general damage type applies twice. Once to the hit as the Withering presence is doing to the hexblast, and then again to the ignite the chaos produced.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Also as a followup if your ever curious about what goes in which basket import your guy into PoB and check the calcs tab select your skill and you can mouse over the increased and more multipliers effecting your ignite and it also tells you what their source is.

I am doing exactly that right now haha... to confirm all of this which you have been spot on about. Something else has arisen from my tinkering though, when i jump from 4 to 5 doom on my curse, i gain almost 100% more damage on the "source chaos" portion in the calculation of ignite. But as far as i know, hexblast only gives you 40% more per 5 doom. Cant seem to see where the extra is coming from?

Edit- I think i understand actually, gems base hit, getting scaled by more modifers on the gem itself increase its base damage?

Yep both of your posts here look correct to me though just to split hairs on B its more that many modifiers work simultaneously on both branches rather than they double dip, double dipping was squaring your modifier by using it twice.

So if I am understanding the information stated in this thread Ignite with Firestorm used to work like this assuming a base damage of 100 for simplicity:

100 per hit, 350 on initial hit. Ignite deals (350/2)3.5=612.5 damage per second for a total of 2,450 damage.

but now it works like this:

100 per hit, 350 on initial hit. Ignite deals (100/2)3.5=175 damage per second for a total of 700 damage.

All assuming no additional modifiers to damage. Is this right?

This uses the new firestorm stats for Echos of the Atlas in all cases btw.

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James_Seth_Lynch wrote:

So if I am understanding the information stated in this thread Ignite with Firestorm used to work like this assuming a base damage of 100 for simplicity:

100 per hit, 350 on initial hit. Ignite deals (350/2)3.5=612.5 damage per second for a total of 2,450 damage.

but now it works like this:

100 per hit, 350 on initial hit. Ignite deals (100/2)3.5=175 damage per second for a total of 700 damage.

All assuming no additional modifiers to damage. Is this right?

This uses the new firestorm stats for Echos of the Atlas in all cases btw.

If you are gonna use firestorm, do it with a hit build, its ignite is a bit of a bonus only, and your numbers are completely off i cant even try to help you cause something ins completely confused in your logic

old firestorm at 100 damage did 50 ignite dps for 4s using your example regardless of whether it was initial hit or not

new one does 175 dps for 4s on initial hit, same as above afterwards.

its really bad for ignite incidentally