For all you "Give us an AH" people..

Mr. Jay Wilson continues to show why he should not ever have been Game Director.

The AH in and of itself didn't ruin D3. The absolutely abysmally awful itemisation, non-randomised dungeons, bland stats and other major issues is what ruined it.

The presence of the AH in D3 was two-thirds of bugger all in making that game so disappointing.

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xpose wrote:

They can easily make another "Bulltine board" with just buyouts of what people are selling and for how much, no bidding involved. People simply list a item and what they want for it.

Much like lineage 2 where you could setup a buy shop or sell shop, no bidding involved.

yep, dungeon defenders has something like that aswell and it works great. You open a shop people can visit, you set a buyout price on your items, or display high-end items without price if people want to barter.
but it's fast and easy. if your buyouts are too high you won't sell anything.

The AH ruined WoW...

NOT.

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Danthraxx wrote:

The AH ruined WoW...

NOT.

In Diablo3 you can buy the best gear (and any kind of gear in general) in the auction house.
In WoW you are very limited in terms of the gear you can buy in the auction house. There is basically close to no high end gear you can buy (some BoE items maybe, I haven't played WoW in a very long time), which in my opinion is why the WoW auction house works. The two aren't really comparable. Seeing there is no such a thing as BoP means that an auction house in PoE would be similar to the auction house in Diablo3.

There is no logical reason whatsoever to equate a properly designed in-game trading system built around a well-balanced economy to the clusterfuck that was Diablo 3. Diablo 3 was ruined by poor balance and poor design, not by the presnce of an AH. But even if it WERE the fault of the AH, there is no reason PoE could not release a trading system that avoids the same pitfalls.

A simple barter system that allows sellers to post items and buyers to browse and post offers asynchronously would be an improvement to the game. It could easily be designed to avoid the pitfalls of the standard MMO AH.

I was spamming trade chat in MUDs in 1989. This is not technology we should be relying on in 2013. It's a giant waste of time, incredibly inefficient and frankly fucking embarassing for a product with otherwise impeccable quality.

maybe ggg cant handle a "ah" (or something like that).
For those who hate d3 , don't get overreacting

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killbilly wrote:

lastly AH is NOT the ONLY trading system....the absence of a trading system in an aRPG is thr WORST decision ggg made (in many others)

Trade Chat. Trade Forum even the Boards can be used for trading. 3 Trading System in Game...what the hell are you talking Sir ?

This generation LoL people are sometimes really anoying. If there is no AH there is no Tradesystem blabla

..i just wish all the kids would go play something else... PoE isn't about hand-holding.. and i hope to god that all these kids with there Pro-AH bullshit don't ruin it for the adults that enjoy the feeling of accomplishment when completing something tedious.. be it an in-game monster or a trade.

Honestly... think about how good it would feel to find/make a 6L with a ton of life and 3 resists.. now think about how it would feel to buy it from an AH..

GO PLAY COD AND LEAVE THIS MASTERPIECE ALONE!!!

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kasub wrote:

The main thing about D3 is that the auctionhouse is too damn good and efficient. It causes hyper inflation like never before. The items you can get on the AH you can't find upgrades for even after 100s of hours of gameplay. There is little meaningful character progression and work towards that strong build. The game becomes dratically easier when you're able to aqcuire items with VERY specific stats.

This seems to be the issue that many people begging for an auction house fail to understand.

Trading has a very large impact on the game economy and power progression. Making it easier for players to access desired gear circumvents the inherent game mechanics (drops, crafting), which are pseudo-random intentionally to provide longevity and make really powerful items rare, valuable, and something to strive for as a goal.

Because of the RNG behaviour of items, one can simplify the quality of item drops as being average, very good, and not so good. Looking at a normal distribution:

One could make the assumption that not so good items are on the left of the curve, most items are around the middle of the curve, and top tier items are on the right of the curve. Without trading at all, every player, over a long period of time, will likely find/craft items that fall on this curve, and everyone will have have a graph that would look similar to each other.

Facilitating sales is a convenience feature that I agree should be integrated into the game so we can all spend more time actually playing the game rather than spamming /$ along with everyone else, and it's coming. GGG had stated it's intentions for trade some time ago.

But what happens to the item curve for players when trade exists? Well, everyone continues to find items according to RNG. But now someone who has an item that is pretty darn good (i.e. pretty close to the right) but doesn't need/want it, can give it to another player. Multiply this over many trades, and the curve doesn't look so normal anymore. In fact, most players will have good items, making the top of the curve move to the right.

What does all this gibberish mean? It means the game becomes easier overall, because GGG can no longer balance mobs against the normal curve, they need to make it more challenging because everyone has better gear. If they leave everything alone, then people that have been playing and have good gear will say the game is too easy. If they adjust the game to fit the new curve, then anyone that chooses not to trade will have a much harder/less fun time playing.

Of course, the curve will shift to the right naturally over time even without trade as people find/craft better and better items. But with trade, this is accelerated by a huge amount.

That is why that other game with an auction house is derided so much. Instead of the challenge/reward/enjoyment of finding/crafting your own godly gear, all you need to do is grind for a bunch of currency and search the auction house for exactly the stats you want. The game is no longer about evolving your character, defeating challenging enemies and finding great loot. It's all about working (grinding) for enough currency and going to the store and buying whatever you want. Guess what, suddenly the game becomes as boring as shit, because now instead of looking forward to the next mob kill and possible godly drop, you're just min/maxing to grind out currency as fast as you can. Guess what, this also means that anyone who is not above using RMAH (third party, whatever) are suddenly the god tier players, and not the ones who are good at theory crafting fun and creative builds and actually playing the game.

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Garr0t wrote:

This seems to be the issue that many people begging for an auction house fail to understand.

Trading has a very large impact on the game economy and power progression. Making it easier for players to access desired gear circumvents the inherent game mechanics (drops, crafting), which are pseudo-random intentionally to provide longevity and make really powerful items rare, valuable, and something to strive for as a goal.

Because of the RNG behaviour of items, one can simplify the quality of item drops as being average, very good, and not so good. Looking at a normal distribution:

One could make the assumption that not so good items are on the left of the curve, most items are around the middle of the curve, and top tier items are on the right of the curve. Without trading at all, every player, over a long period of time, will likely find/craft items that fall on this curve, and everyone will have have a graph that would look similar to each other.

Facilitating sales is a convenience feature that I agree should be integrated into the game so we can all spend more time actually playing the game rather than spamming /$ along with everyone else, and it's coming. GGG had stated it's intentions for trade some time ago.

I guess the PoE indexers to sift through all the trade forums only compounded this problem. While it is a pain in the rear to go through the trade forums before the indexers existed, it made for medicore stuff sellable.