So why is the chineese client a much better game than the western one?

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gryphon79 wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Somehow GGG convinced us that the cost of being a f2p with minimal p2w is quality of life features because without p2w they need to keep rushing content out the door. That's bullshit in my opinion. And now TencentGGG are riding that fallacy despite introducing *far* more mtx per week (I checked before and after the acquisition; mtx announcements in the news have more than DOUBLED per week)...it's grotesque.

I'm curious if this is simply a consequence of having a much larger team.

Don't get me wrong I wasn't a fan of the Tencent buy out, and I feel its irrevocably changed things.

I'm not sure the size of the team now, but it is much larger since Tencent got involved. So with those increased payroll costs, they have to push more mtx as that is their main revenue source, and it puts more pressure on the 3 month turn around time.

If that were the result of the sell-out...was it worth it, was it though?

I mean you're probably not wrong in terms of cause and effect, but that's some weirdass business logic. Gets bought out by huge publisher, increases size of development team...but net result is no real increase in quality for users and far greater focus on selling pointless shinies.

Uh...look, I only did a few years of Commerce at university decades ago but I am pretty sure that's now it's meant to work when you sell your indie business to a big investment company...unless part of your goal with selling out is seriously doing a runner.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

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gryphon79 wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Somehow GGG convinced us that the cost of being a f2p with minimal p2w is quality of life features because without p2w they need to keep rushing content out the door. That's bullshit in my opinion. And now TencentGGG are riding that fallacy despite introducing *far* more mtx per week (I checked before and after the acquisition; mtx announcements in the news have more than DOUBLED per week)...it's grotesque.

I'm curious if this is simply a consequence of having a much larger team.

Don't get me wrong I wasn't a fan of the Tencent buy out, and I feel its irrevocably changed things.

I'm not sure the size of the team now, but it is much larger since Tencent got involved. So with those increased payroll costs, they have to push more mtx as that is their main revenue source, and it puts more pressure on the 3 month turn around time.

If that were the result of the sell-out...was it worth it, was it though?

I mean you're probably not wrong in terms of cause and effect, but that's some weirdass business logic. Gets bought out by huge publisher, increases size of development team...but net result is no real increase in quality for users and far greater focus on selling pointless shinies.

Uh...look, I only did a few years of Commerce at university decades ago but I am pretty sure that's now it's meant to work when you sell your indie business to a big investment company...unless part of your goal with selling out is seriously doing a runner.

I don't think we should forget part of the deal was the GGG lost it's rights to development and control of the China servers, which is probably where Tencent thinks the real money is.

I think it's likely that if "Western" GGG PoE doesn't lose money, or gets poorly managed, that they really even give a shit what Chris and Team do.

Oh, I haven't forgotten that at all.

Are you lot avoiding my question or something? It wasn't hard to understand. And just to be even clearer, think Warframe.

Because China numBa 1

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

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gryphon79 wrote:

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

Somehow GGG convinced us that the cost of being a f2p with minimal p2w is quality of life features because without p2w they need to keep rushing content out the door. That's bullshit in my opinion. And now TencentGGG are riding that fallacy despite introducing *far* more mtx per week (I checked before and after the acquisition; mtx announcements in the news have more than DOUBLED per week)...it's grotesque.

I'm curious if this is simply a consequence of having a much larger team.

Don't get me wrong I wasn't a fan of the Tencent buy out, and I feel its irrevocably changed things.

I'm not sure the size of the team now, but it is much larger since Tencent got involved. So with those increased payroll costs, they have to push more mtx as that is their main revenue source, and it puts more pressure on the 3 month turn around time.

If that were the result of the sell-out...was it worth it, was it though?

I mean you're probably not wrong in terms of cause and effect, but that's some weirdass business logic. Gets bought out by huge publisher, increases size of development team...but net result is no real increase in quality for users and far greater focus on selling pointless shinies.

Uh...look, I only did a few years of Commerce at university decades ago but I am pretty sure that's now it's meant to work when you sell your indie business to a big investment company...unless part of your goal with selling out is seriously doing a runner.

In business as anywhere else hindsight is 20:20. The buyout also simplified a lot of things in that it removed a lot of share holders. It also gave the original guys a big payout. Some can call it a sell out, but I would never fault anyone for making enough money to be comfortable for the rest of their life.

Leagues have arguably gotten bigger and more expansive since the acquisition. It really is mind boggling the amount of free content they give each league, that requires no purchase to participate in. You have to give them that.

We are also arguing quantity of things we will never have the true numbers of, as GGG holds all that info close to their heart.

The fact is, GGG was getting so big at some point someone would of made an offer they couldn't refuse. Also the purchase arguably gave GGG the liquidity to push for bigger things, for any company that wants growth, liquidity is the most important thing.

I'll be first to argue I feel things are worse now than before the take over. But it still provided a way forward for GGG, and enabled much faster growth.

One thing I have to give Chris Kudos for is he could of arguably walked away from this after the take over. But he didn't and still sits at the helm.

So was it worth it, in my eyes... not really. In Chris's eyes maybe a much different answer. But at the end of the day he will probably never say it wasn't worth it, no matter how he feels.

I mean of course it was worth it from Tencent's point of view, and for the majority owner that got rich on GGG's end.

Is there some dispute about that?

Lets not ignore that when it comes to space they created the problem then sell it.

On the asian version it seems that those things arent even there, they sell the QoL and they have the console trading.

Both things that people asked for years.. I can imagine how everything will burn if they made that currency loot pet or if you had to pay extra to use that AH system in game.

The chinese version looks like what the game would be if they didnt hold so much on their own "no p2w here but we will create problems for you to pay regardless"

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

...

I have a question for you. Since you are one of the original Diamond supporters.

Do you regret investing in GGG early in it's life?


I spent a fair amount of money in this game, probably not as much as you. I know you are still passionate about the game, as am I.

I personally don't have any regrets for the money I spent.

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ivkoto77777 wrote:

I just recently saw this thing on reddit and my jaw dropped:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/duplicates/jcsole/hey_ggg_could_we_get_an_explanation_or_why_this/

GGG seem to be pretending that thread doesn't exist, so it makes me wonder... Have they ever communicated over here that they intend to make the chineese client a much better game and not implement the very same QoL over here? It seems absurd to me that they'd leave out so many good features. Did westerners do something bad ot deserve punishment, or what?

The real issue is that the Chinese (Eaastern/et al) market is.. huge. The player expectations there are VERY high when it comes down to the quality of play and the overall play experience in any game with Real Money Marketplaces.

These sorts of games represent, in general, a heck of a lot more in terms of "culture" and social interaction than they would ever hope to achieve in the "West."

Want to know why the NBA cow-tows to certain markets? The "National Basketball Association...." They play... basketball in the United States. It's what they do. They bounce rubber balls in the US in a competitive sport. So, why make statements in favor of certain markets that they wouldn't otherwise make such statements in favor of?

They get paid big money by game-makes to license their intellectual property and the most explosive, most profitable, most pervasive game market in the world that can draw in the most ravenous consumers just happens to be... that market.

Obviously, with all the real money involved, that market commands a huge amount of attention. Developers with a product with real-money trading and continued purchases would sacrifice their grand-mothers to get a foot in the door through some widely used distribution marketer. I would not doubt it one bit if I saw a headline that said "Electronic Arts Executives Cooked Their Own Pupples and Served Them to ____ in Hopes of Getting an Exclusive RMT-Game Release in Their Market."

All it takes, in certain markets... , is the government to say "No." That' it. An entire company is doomed, its employees out of work, its IP dead in the water, just with one word.

And, someone wonders why Western games that get introduced to that market end up getting many additional features that they didn't have before?

Diablo's "other version" had pets in it one could buy that would pick up gold as well as crafting materials... For Day 1 players of Diablo 3, like myself, that wasn't a darn "thing." We didn't get anything like that for a very long time. Why did they get that? Because competing products had it and players playing Diablo 3 would get discouraged if they didn't have a feature like that. They'd much rather not waste time "doing the game" and spend more time "buying real-money items" like pets that pick up all your stuff for you...

Diablo3+... is created for mobile gaming for the sole reason to exploit the ginormous Real-Money Marketplace and Pay2Win Mobile Gaming Market in these markets... That's it. It's a huge cash-grab and, because of the culture that has developed around these sorts of games, certainly encouraged by their developers, these games make money that is unheard of in the West. And, players devote more time to earning money just to spend in these games and to have some bare semblance of reasonable human social contact than anything conceived of in the West. Remember - Some of these regions are the ones where we've read headlines of players dying in internet cafes playing the game they've devoted their life to playing... Not all markets have that extreme of a culture, but it is growing to be just as addictive in certain markets and just as profitable.


Why are the games different?

It may be very simply a desire by GGG to keep to their "Vision" of gameplay in markets where they can while still serving very demanding high-profit markets where they do not have such an extravegent ability to choose the content they produce.

Derped a double post... Someone could at least make quoting one's own post in a reply a bit more idiot-proof... for us idiots.