Path of Exile: Heist Balance Manifesto

Remember that Blizzard downfall began when devs wanted everyone to play their way instead of the way players wanted...

For some time I see GGG in the same direction.
"There's no thing like random one-shots in this game. You only die because you take 353,456,237 hits in 0.2 seconds. If your build can't survive that or a lag spike it's because you suck, period. Post your PoB so the PoE experts can analyse and help improve your build."
I am just thinking I am using Necromancer VD using Warcry with call to arms and Bone offering with Mistress but why I am still getting one shot? I have max 75 to all elemental resistance, around 75% going to 85 % physical damage reduction when the warcry effects and has 75 % blocking of spell and attack damage using bone offering but still I am getting one shot at bosses. I can't understand why they are calling it OP. For me it is really needed by this class because it is really soft.
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Sidian42 wrote:
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Dan1986 wrote:
You don't get it do you? Games are supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable.


Are they, though? Are ball games like soccer, football, basketball, baseball and many more relaxing for the players? Not really. Are competitive games or gamemodes like ranked in CS:GO, League of Legends, Overwatch, Starcraft (2) etc. relaxing? Nope. And what about games like Sekiro, Nioh, Dark Souls, Dead Cells and others, are they relaxing? Also no.

Not all players get their enjoyment out of relaxing games. Many players need tension, action and/or competition to make a game enjoyable to play, and there are games for everyone. You cannot just say "games are supposed to be this and that" since different kind of games are fun and enjoyable to different kind of players.


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Dan1986 wrote:
Nerfs are the opposite.


Again, that depends on the player. Some players just use certain skills because they are strong, not because they are fun. They would rather use different skills but feel like they would cripple their character if they did that.
For example, if you wanted to play a Witch with an elemental spell as your main damage source, Elementalist would be a fitting choice... but only in terms of the name, since Necromancer would give you more damage and better survivability.

In addition, nerfs are the logical choice if only a few skills are causing an issue by being too strong. Otherwise you would have to buff hundreds of other skills, mobs and bosses for the same result.


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Dan1986 wrote:
It's also a time investment for some of us - not everyone can play endlessly and then just restart whenever a new league begins.


Just play standard if you don't have the time to play the leagues.



What you are saying this game is not for everyone and just because you are a bit of... I don`t know the word is that moment when you hate yourself and you want to do things the hard way just because .... the rest of us should play standard? Nah ... sadly democracy (something my ancestors have invented in Ancient Greece ) is that the majority decides what goes on that should be the case in POE the majority of the players hate lvl-ing and are asking since forever about WHEN THE ACTUAL FUCK are we getting an alternative lvl-ing system what did GGG do? fucked the only working system that was a bit decent by Nerfing Spelslinger, then Defences something that in POE is more like a joke because you don`t actually have any defences in reality there for the Comunity joke "Don`t Get HIT" are getting nerfed ... hmm well, I would say that is stupid but that is an understatement, for people that like it rough they can create new leagues and add the Gauntlet mechanics ;) and the way you balance is not by cutting down the only 2-3 builds that are decent ... you up the ones that are USELESS because 0% inquisitor, 0% raider, 0% saboteur etc etc etc this list goes on.... Where do you see the balance there ?? the reason people are playing good builds is written in the description "The Builds are good " and if I want to play a build 10 years in a row that is my decision don`t mess with my build make better ones without forcing me to quit my current one by making it obsolete as they did with other builds in the past
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I just read through this entire thread, all 48 pages (thus far) of it, and almost every comment I've read here complaining about, belittling, and insulting those who are expressing their dissatisfaction with the nerfs, involves an attack against a strawman argument.

Despite the claims of the sycophants, very few of the complaints about the nerfs have been complaints about GGG breaking people's pet builds. Very few of the complaints have been about damage nerfs. I've only seen exactly one complaint which could arguably be said to argue against nerfing something OP.

The vast majority of the actual complaints have been about defensive nerfs, followed by complaints about making leveling (the thing we have to get through just to get to the real content) suck more than it already does.

These are fair and legitimate complaints.

Even moderately effective defenses are already difficult and expensive to acquire; just compare prices on equivalent items with and without non-negligible amounts of chaos res (it easily increases the cost by an order of magnitude or more), and while really good chaos res wasn't always essential, it's definitely become so over the past couple of years. Resistances alone also don't cut it, you need other forms of damage mitigation/avoidance and ehp recovery as well. Any one of those defensive stats on their own might be fairly easy to acquire, but in the combinations required to provide anything remotely resembling an effective set of defensive layers it's going to be extremely costly in both skill points and gear (which ultimately requires a lot of time and luck whether you trade for it or self-farm and craft). And that doesn't even factor in that you also need to get damage on both your passives, which is a very limited resource, and on your gear, which makes it that much more expensive to acquire.

Then, even if you manage to focus so heavily on defense to the exclusion of damage that it'd take you six hours to kill Shaper, if you're not playing one of the actually broken immortal builds, you still get one-shot or hit by massive DoTs which may as well be one-shots almost constantly, half the time because you killed something, the other half of the time because you didn't.

That is not fun gameplay, it's a fucking chore, and it drives a great many of us away from the game every league, long before we really even explore all the new content. The last time I actually had enough fun playing the game that I stuck around for 36+ challenges was Legacy league, but the game was a hell of a lot more fun back then than it is now.

Oh, and of course before you even get to any of the real content with your actual build and start actually gearing, you have to wade through the shit-tier leveling experience, which GGG just keeps making more rippy, more mazy, and just overall more miserable.


This guy is on the money and poe's doom is inevitable especially when new games are coming out like last epoch, bg3 and diablo 4!
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Nephilim999 wrote:
This guy is on the money and poe's doom is inevitable especially when new games are coming out like last epoch, bg3 and diablo 4!

You, sir, are right on that money too! I'm on Diablo 4 as soon as that releases and that's just a placeholder until BG3! And then, my POE time will be doing a quick fade unless there are some noticeable improvements. And even less time when Star Wars Squadrons comes out next month!

I couldn't stand harvest because...gardening. If I wanted to garden, I'd go out in my backyard and start digging and watering.

And now, this coming league, we go from someone more or less heroic to godslayers to...burglars! What wonderful progression! Save the world and then become felons so you commit even more felonies! Seriously, who would want to step down from killing gods and traveling to other worlds, pretty much exploring the universe--to go and B&E some random houses?!

GGG, you guys are falling WAY behind with the interesting and fun parts of the game--AxiomOfAnarchy made some great points, and there is WAY too much competition for my $$ and my time! Try harder!
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halloweendm wrote:
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Nephilim999 wrote:
This guy is on the money and poe's doom is inevitable especially when new games are coming out like last epoch, bg3 and diablo 4!

You, sir, are right on that money too! I'm on Diablo 4 as soon as that releases and that's just a placeholder until BG3! And then, my POE time will be doing a quick fade unless there are some noticeable improvements. And even less time when Star Wars Squadrons comes out next month!

I couldn't stand harvest because...gardening. If I wanted to garden, I'd go out in my backyard and start digging and watering.

And now, this coming league, we go from someone more or less heroic to godslayers to...burglars! What wonderful progression! Save the world and then become felons so you commit even more felonies! Seriously, who would want to step down from killing gods and traveling to other worlds, pretty much exploring the universe--to go and B&E some random houses?!

GGG, you guys are falling WAY behind with the interesting and fun parts of the game--AxiomOfAnarchy made some great points, and there is WAY too much competition for my $$ and my time! Try harder!


out of all those games you just said the only one that wont be dead in 2 weeks will be cyberpunk 2077 if its as good as witcher 3. d4... really, you're talking about a game thats at min 2-3 years away? sure its gonna sell 30+ mil copies to desperate fanbois[which have proven they'll buy a plate of shit and proudly proclaim its the best shit ever] because its blizz. I have zero expectations and will probably still be dissapointed. they havent put out anything good in 10+ years now. last epoch? well maybe but i'm guessing thats gonna be another poe killer like wolcen was... BG3 might be good but thats a wait and see. Star wars, well maybe if EA doesnt find a way to lootbox the crap out of it. highly unlikely since they know star wars fans will throw money at it, so expect all the good stuff to be in those.

sounds like you're grasping for something else to play.
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Dan1986 wrote:

Games are supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable.

the game IS relaxing and enjoyable until you reach endgame.

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Dan1986 wrote:

Nerfs are the opposite.
...
gamers who play RPGs usually want to beat the game and not run against wall after wall.


nothing more boring if you can play the same build league after league which just walks through endgame after you got the right gear. but you can, with essence drain/contagion for example which only sucks for bossing.

also, the game is advertised through streamers, those can't just tell their crowd to play the same shit they recommended last league, nobody would watch them.
age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill
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vio wrote:
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Dan1986 wrote:

Games are supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable.

the game IS relaxing and enjoyable until you reach endgame.

"
Dan1986 wrote:

Nerfs are the opposite.
...
gamers who play RPGs usually want to beat the game and not run against wall after wall.


nothing more boring if you can play the same build league after league which just walks through endgame after you got the right gear. but you can, with essence drain/contagion for example which only sucks for bossing.

also, the game is advertised through streamers, those can't just tell their crowd to play the same shit they recommended last league, nobody would watch them.


huh what? ziz, karv, others have been playing the basically same couple builds for i dont know how long now? ed/con ring a bell? the only time they change is if theres a broken ass OP new meta, then they play that alongside their usual ed/con that that always play. Alk still plays the basic same 2-3 melee builds since forever.

mathil who plays i dont know 17 or some crazy amount of builds has his basic few that always get played as well as trying out new stuff. heck mathil has probably plays more build in 1 league then most other streamers have played in the last couple of years.
Last edited by Iznuts on Sep 17, 2020, 10:26:37 PM
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Iznuts wrote:
out of all those games you just said the only one that wont be dead in 2 weeks will be cyberpunk 2077 if its as good as witcher 3. d4... really, you're talking about a game thats at min 2-3 years away? sure its gonna sell 30+ mil copies to desperate fanbois[which have proven they'll buy a plate of shit and proudly proclaim its the best shit ever] because its blizz. I have zero expectations and will probably still be dissapointed. they havent put out anything good in 10+ years now. last epoch? well maybe but i'm guessing thats gonna be another poe killer like wolcen was... BG3 might be good but thats a wait and see. Star wars, well maybe if EA doesnt find a way to lootbox the crap out of it. highly unlikely since they know star wars fans will throw money at it, so expect all the good stuff to be in those.

sounds like you're grasping for something else to play.

Sounds like you're the one grasping, you don't know me from anyone else and here you are crapping on games I'm looking forward to like you know me. I didn't even mention Cyberpunk or Witcher or others on your mind.

If D4 is so far away, so what? I played 1 and 2 so long ago, I forgot what they look like and what they did, but I enjoyed D3. I'm not desperate or a crazy fanboy or any of that other childish crap you were going on about. I liked the visuals, I liked the story, the gameplay was fun enough, so it was a game I enjoyed and D4 seems like its on track to do the same only better. If its not your thing, that's really good and means I won't have to worry about bumping into you when I play it.

BG1 and 2 were great in their day, so there's no reason to think that BG3 won't be more of the same!

And, yeah, EA already said there's no lootboxes or any of that crap. They learned their lesson already. If the SW game, apparently like D4, isn't your thing, that's fine and yet another game I won't have to worry about bumping into you--because this has just been SO much fun.

[Removed by Support] So, despite your parting shot that fizzled out of the gate, I'm pretty far from grasping for something else to play, and its actually comforting knowing that my taste in games is wildly different than yours after you offered your unasked for critique of my upcoming gaming choices.
Last edited by Kane_GGG on Sep 18, 2020, 4:52:05 AM

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