Minion Builds Need a Nerf

what u write is just complete bullshit.
i invested like a mirror in my gear with zombies and i am not at 10mil dps.
spectre have much better dps but even there u wont get 10mil with crap gear.
you could play so many other builds and get much better dps much cheaper.

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Universalis wrote:

It's hilarious to watch you trying to argue about summoner while you never made a decent one. I do in each temp league since several leagues, each time it's upping to 100 or 200 ex budget.

I do not doubt that some people never realize how mediocre some things they make are.

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EDMOSES wrote:

Completely false - just gimme 50ex and i'll go make a good build.

Good for you.
It's about making a good build with less than 5ex here, or even less than 1ex actually.
And it's very feasible with Necromancers ( as summoners ).

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pandafutter wrote:

what u write is just complete bullshit.
i invested like a mirror in my gear with zombies and i am not at 10mil dps.
spectre have much better dps but even there u wont get 10mil with crap gear.
you could play so many other builds and get much better dps much cheaper.

Feel free to show where anybody said that you can get 10ml dps on a budget with zombies or spectres.
( which makes the bolded part very ironic lol )

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Fruz wrote:

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Universalis wrote:

It's hilarious to watch you trying to argue about summoner while you never made a decent one. I do in each temp league since several leagues, each time it's upping to 100 or 200 ex budget.

I do not doubt that some people never realize how mediocre some things they make are.

"

EDMOSES wrote:

Completely false - just gimme 50ex and i'll go make a good build.

Good for you.
It's about making a good build with less than 5ex here, or even less than 1ex actually.
And it's very feasible with Necromancers ( as summoners ).

"

pandafutter wrote:

what u write is just complete bullshit.
i invested like a mirror in my gear with zombies and i am not at 10mil dps.
spectre have much better dps but even there u wont get 10mil with crap gear.
you could play so many other builds and get much better dps much cheaper.

Feel free to show where anybody said that you can get 10ml dps on a budget with zombies or spectres.
( which makes the bolded part very ironic lol )

"
I get that there needs to be a "safe" choice to play, a league starter for people that don't want to be gear dependent, etc. But right now it's over the top.

Minion builds can invest almost exclusively into defensive nodes on the tree, take just a few damage clusters, and do 10+ million boss DPS very easily - trivializing the content."

this 2 parts together are very close to what you asked for.
maybe you should start reading at the first, not at the last post mister ironic

He did indeed say that, my mistake.
Over exagerration on the OP's part regarding dps.

Which is a pity, given that the OP's feedback is else valid ( because you never need 10ml dps really )

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deepinggiap wrote:

The new Broodmother build doesn't even need a 5l to decimate sirus/shaper.

So whoever said that summoner build need 6l to do endgame is false.

Last league I played a summoners. Passing uberlab was cake walk, while other chars I played then have quite big problem again izaro if they do it at 75.

Zombies grunting was annoying af so I dropped the summoner.

It's not really new, i checked this "build" and it's the same thing i'm playing since league start. Thus i'm also using 9zombs & 10skel.
For sure you dont need a 6 link since spectres are going into a mini 10exs helmet. Each cluster large or medium (x6) worth two times a 6link.
Well the whole build is like 50 ex mini, without the express need of a 6link

It still possible to play sentries with low budget (6l regalias are less than 2 ex...) but damage is ...not the same...

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Fruz wrote:

tldr : you threw a big, fat lie, I merely pointed it out.
Don't like it ? why not start by not throwing stuff like this and both

big minion buffs started happening before 3.0

Your very video showing a 3.2 build doing shaper is proof that this 3.8 ass pull is bullshit. just because there were major buffs in 3.8 does not mean they were the ONLY major buffs ever. How can you pretend to be so smug about this while deliberately ignoring it?

We have only had 3 major versions of poe , the 4th looms over head. for 2 of those major versions summoners were complaining constantly. far longer and far louder than you have been about this topic. Stop ignoring that fact.

Montriguls getting buffed along with the damage buffs that came BEFORE 3.8 were major reasons why zombie builds started popping up at all.

But it turns out being pigeon holed into using one item to make a skill viable at all in end game was kind of shit game design.

That is what the 3.8 buffs were really about. So that minion gems on their own were viable in the new true end game. Places where you need 60000 hp and tons of damage. we can go back to pre 3.8 sure zombies could do shaper and probably sirus.. but it would be pretty horrible whole build archetypes would die out. we would have to go back to temp minion builds constantly spamming disposable minions to get anywhere.

Zombies are not good disposable minions. They never have been. They started being something people wanted to play when they stopping being limited to just disposable minions.

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Feel free read the thread again, it isn't hard.

Are you always this insufferably smug?
Seriously the more you talk the less I want to listen to you.

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pandafutter wrote:

Minion builds can invest almost exclusively into defensive nodes on the tree, take just a few damage clusters, and do 10+ million boss DPS very easily - trivializing the content."

Honestly i feel the whole "get 10 mill for pennies" thing is a bit misleading. Especially since its not universal and can come with quite a few caveats.


Specters can do a ton of damage, IF you find very specific specters that wont later be nerfed to the ground. I can think of probably 5 or 6 popular specter bases from over the years that have been eradicated.

And most of the powerful ones we have today are based on over tuned influence mobs. I would not be surpised if a nerf hammer comes swinging down on some of those too. Especially the likes of sentries.

I know for a fact that zombies wont see 300k dps each without decent investment

There is also the fact that most minions builds that use multiple minions tend to ignore things like path blocking or minion ia placement.


you can have 10 million damage spread over 12 skeletons and 10 zombies.. but if only half of those minions can actually hit the boss.. then you do not have 10 million dps.

And if that boss decides to move at all? Then you definitely do not have 10 million dps

dbl pst due to lag

I have watched that video fruz linked
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECtK_NJwiB0
and god, just how much im detached from community environment reality.

I'm not posting to see this minion stuff nerfed or not nerfed, but just wanted to ask, how do you enjoy such playstyle. I mean, all you do mostly is left click and run and see world burn, its almost the same as watch streamer play, no, its more like playing candy crush where every click explodes all candies. What's even a point, what are players running for? More power to run even faster?

In past people were thinking about things like arctic armour's chilled ground tail benefits and its exploits, and other stuff's mechanical benefits. Nowdays the only criteria seems to be run as fast and explode screen, its also a plus if that build can shatter.

I can understand if build is almighty after mindless grind since you earned it and may roll smth else then if you want to. Whats the thought processes now, what people are enjoying in it (in running fast and exploding from the start to end)?

Sirus quote "why run? whats the point?"

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

big minion buffs started happening before 3.0

Irrelevant, as I (literally) explained you already.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

That is what the 3.8 buffs were really about. So that minion gems on their own were viable in the new true end game. Places where you need 60000 hp and tons of damage. we can go back to pre 3.8 sure zombies could do shaper and probably sirus.. but it would be pretty horrible whole build archetypes would die out. we would have to go back to temp minion builds constantly spamming disposable minions to get anywhere.

3.8 was about making a useless mess of the balance regarding summoners if anything ...

If 3.8 made Mtregul OP, then maybe a nerf of the item is in order, nobody every said they wanted to make summoners useless or anything.
They just have too many advantage compared to most of the other choices, how they were 6 years ago is nowhere remotely near relevant here.

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Andrius319 wrote:

I'm not posting to see this minion stuff nerfed or not nerfed, but just wanted to ask, how do you enjoy such playstyle. I mean, all you do mostly is left click and run and see world burn, its almost the same as watch streamer play, no, its more like playing candy crush where every click explodes all candies. What's even a point, what are players running for? More power to run even faster?

I think that it's one of the reason why streamers mostly don't play such minion builds, because it gets boring a.f. quickly for most.
And it's definitely a reason why such builds have never been very popular but for the few months when the imbalance was so blatant that they made most other things in the game feel like crap in comparison.

personally, I have 2 minion builds :
- chaos golemancer, always using blight (+CwC offering), movement skills and convocation so that I have something to do most of the time.
- Soul Wrest "cycloner" (cyclone with CwC and offering, to keep the minion count at maximum), also casting curse / desecrate / flame dash manually when needed

In both cases, it's still quite active so I don't find it boring.
A spectre build where you cast one offering and keep running for 10+ seconds though ? hell no .....