Slam skills dps, where is it?

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yamface wrote:

No your point does not stand. I used hc as a way to show what a perfect run to 32 watchstones will take you in terms of levels. Because hc is the only way to solidly prove a character hasn't died. The hc part is otherwise irrelevant.

You're using hc as a reason to show that people will use multiple characters to finish their watchstones because rips are permanent even though the discussion was mainly for sc players.

I'm allowed to use hc to make my point because the reason I'm using it makes sense.

Ok lets say you are correct and you get to 95 or hell even 96 while collecting watchstones, still nobody does that on 1 char. I used Ziz as example just because he is known, nothing else. Go ask in global chat how many players care to get to lvl95, you will see what i mean. Most "bosskiller" chars people make are 92-93, you can easily check that out. Thats why poe.ninja showing only 96+ is not representative. It will show the most braindead builds that people use to get to that level.

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kuciol wrote:

Ok lets say you are correct and you get to 95 or hell even 96 while collecting watchstones, still nobody does that on 1 char. I used Ziz as example just because he is known, nothing else. Go ask in global chat how many players care to get to lvl95, you will see what i mean. Most "bosskiller" chars people make are 92-93, you can easily check that out. Thats why poe.ninja showing only 96+ is not representative. It will show the most braindead builds that people use to get to that level.

How do you look up stats for boss killers? The only boss killer I know is don the crown, who hits 100 every league.

You're free to rewind poe ninja's page back to week 1 if you want, back when every character over lv80 was recorded. The disappointing slam usage is not that different then than it is now.

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yamface wrote:

How do you look up stats for boss killers? The only boss killer I know is don the crown, who hits 100 every league.

You're free to rewind poe ninja's page back to week 1 if you want, back when every character over lv80 was recorded. The disappointing slam usage is not that different then than it is now.

Just check boss kill service guys. Yeah good choice, leaguestart stats when everybody knows its easier to use spells without gear. Also it will be the same people just with lower lvls. PoE ninja for such things is just as usefull as trade macro for price checking rares.

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kuciol wrote:

Just check boss kill service guys. Yeah good choice, leaguestart stats when everybody knows its easier to use spells without gear. Also it will be the same people just with lower lvls. PoE ninja for such things is just as usefull as trade macro for price checking rares.

Telling me to cherry pick random anecdotes isn't helping prove your point. Show me a statistical aggregation for boss killers.

Week 1 shows weapon based builds eg cyclone, puncture, SA, etc. You don't have an excuse to complain about league starters especially when harvest mechanics can hand you a decent weapon. It's almost like... slams just aren't good.

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yamface wrote:

Telling me to cherry pick random anecdotes isn't helping prove your point. Show me a statistical aggregation for boss killers.

Week 1 shows weapon based builds eg cyclone, puncture, SA, etc. You don't have an excuse to complain about league starters especially when harvest mechanics can hand you a decent weapon. It's almost like... slams just aren't good.

You refusing to check doesnt mean its wrong. Slams are not good to level to 96, thats everything you can say about them, nothing else. Checking league start stats is pointless since nobody uses unproven build as leaguestarter. People will use easy, no gear required stuff to get currency. Nobody knew how easy will it be to get decent gear. If you want to see how stupid poe.ninja stats are just go and switch to delirium. Guardian and ascendant top class yay, when everybody and their grandma played VD or some kind of archmage, some nolifes played harold. Thats how usefull this crap is.

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zzang wrote:

If you tell me this is balanced then i simply disagree.

Nah i'm in agreement with you its far from balanced, I just think the builds your talking about are the outliers not slams here and its the dodgy scaling for certain combinations that needs addressing the most. Current slams give or take would make a pretty fine baseline.

I did a similar build to the one you linked as my 2nd char except it was poison BV with explosion chest, pretty similar results albeit a little slower. I legitimately told my buddy I play with to make sure not to let me play it again as it was the kind of build that ruins the game.

Also @kuciol I did slams as league start and i'm 94 without all 32 watchstones unlocked yet, it wasn't really unproven people have done EQ every league on HC its always been a safe choice if you are experienced with that playstyle.

Min maxers will always play a busted starter but there are plenty of players like myself that will actively avoid whats popular and just play whatever they fancy. In all liklihood most will RIP before they get there but some won't ^^

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kuciol wrote:

You refusing to check doesnt mean its wrong. Slams are not good to level to 96, thats everything you can say about them, nothing else. Checking league start stats is pointless since nobody uses unproven build as leaguestarter. People will use easy, no gear required stuff to get currency. Nobody knew how easy will it be to get decent gear. If you want to see how stupid poe.ninja stats are just go and switch to delirium. Guardian and ascendant top class yay, when everybody and their grandma played VD or some kind of archmage, some nolifes played harold. Thats how usefull this crap is.

Mate I asked you to give me aggregated stats on boss killers, you haven't given it to me yet. You made that claim, it's on you to give me whatever you're looking at. Don't push your work onto me. If your only answer to me is to check anecdotes then I'm fairly over with this.

If you haven't noticed poe ninja changed this league. There's a reason why I'm telling you to look at different weeks. It's because that's a new feature. Archmage storm brands were an "untested" build yet they dominated the meta on poe ninja in the first few weeks so your theory of untested builds being unused is not really accurate. Not to mention if you're saying slams aren't that great leveling to 96... when do they get good?

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yamface wrote:

Mate I asked you to give me aggregated on boss killers, you haven't given it to me yet. You made that claim, it's on you to give me whatever you're looking at. Don't push your work onto me. If your only answer to me is to check anecdotes then I'm fairly over with this.

If you haven't noticed poe ninja changed this league. There's a reason why I'm telling you to look at different weeks. It's because that's a new feature. Archmage storm brands were an "untested" build yet they dominated the meta on poe ninja in the first few weeks so your theory of untested builds being unused is not really accurate. Not to mention if you're saying slams aren't that great leveling to 96... when do they get good?

I told you to go to any boss killing service dude and check his character, thats more representative then poe.ninja that show stats of bunch of nolifes that made their character public.

They arent that great to level for THAT LONG. They are fine to level with once you get gear, they are comfortable to do bosses with up to A8. Everything else is irrelevant. Most players drop char around 85-93lvl. Thats just how it is, you are the outlier here for keeping it that long. Poeple used archmage because it was obvious it will be op, also spells, case closed. You cant say that for attack skills that need gear. Every big streamer did everything on slam build, that alone proves they are fine. The problem are other builds that can do the same while not needing any player interaction and you just hold RMB whole map. Players are just lazy and will always pick the latter.

I can't help but be amused at how far people will go to justify the lack of two-hand.

ED/Cont has one of the best clears, but its not popular mostly because its annoying to play having to constantly prep a pack before killing it - it's fine in high density but irritating when they're spaced out.

Pressing more buttons to self buff is fine for a while, but it gets old when you're doing this map after map after map. Flasks are typically piano-keyed as is.

But think about it - some folks argue that with just a few warcries you can delete a boss, but is anything actually changing if the goal is to obliterate the boss almost instantaneously?

What happened to the experience? Elder isn't nearly as dangerous as his eradicator. Sirus has two meaningless phases just to drag out the time sink, and that was the replacement for Uber Elder.

Skills should be fun, but these days boss killing effectiveness predominately dictates what people play. If the boss fights themselves are devoid of fun, instead of looking forward to them it's getting them over with as soon and as safely as possible.