After you watch this you'll really wish GGG could have afforded a commercial game engine .

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ArtCrusade wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

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Arrowneous wrote:

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Still waiting, Arrowneous.

You wouldn't expect him to answer to reason, would you?

This thread might end, but another just like this one will appear in given time, and the cycle will continue and continue..

You know I do have a life and with Delirium league (and probably all future leagues) being shit for any casual players I'm not playing this league much (none right now).

I know, I know GGG isn't going to be able to fix quality of play with their custom game engine. All I know is that a commercial engine from the get-go would have eliminated so many performance problems we are stuck with today.

I have doubts that a new engine can help PoE. Too much happens on screen, and their servers handle too many calculations. Whatever improvements they can (and should) do can be done with their current engine.

However, there is a clear (and very sad) case of GGG puting their artistic vision before player convenience and QoL. Why? Because GGG can already take steps to reduce performance issues, in particular:

1) Give players the option to reduce effects.
2) Reduce the number of monsters in general, and number of effects happening at the same time.

Number one they won't do because they are afraid of the representation of their game to potential viewers (really guys? a bunch of streamers play competitive games on all low, yet the popularity doesnt suffer because of it).

Number two is something they can also do, at least gradually to avoid upsetting players who like playing with their entire screen being one big indistinguishable mix of colorful effects and monsters. But not only do they not take any steps towards it, they actively make it worse every league. Legion - crap ton of monsters spawning all over you, Blight - a crap ton of monsters spawning in giant lines, Delirium - a crap ton of monsters spawning in addition to other monsters, with all of them also having fancy attacks and after death effects. Look at an older, and also probably one of the most well designed PoE bosses (not talking about difficulty here), Shaper. How much visual stuff is going on at the same time during his fight? Now look at freaking Sirus, or hell, even Catarina, or any metamorph.

This is, in my opinion, the worst part of this situation. They know that their game can't handle it, and it is in their power to reduce the quantity of monsters and effects a bit, or at least not make encounters and mechanics that put a lot more burden on the game... but they just don't, because screw you the player, we want hordes of monsters like it's a shoot them up, with loads of fancy explosions all over your face!

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innervation wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

How can it be a clean slate if it's primarily a new campaign towards the same endgame as PoE 1's?

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With what we know so far, I cannot conceive of PoE 2 being anything but a balance nightmare of a magnitude that will make anything to date look timid.

I have a hard time conceiving PoE 2 as anything BUT a clean slate. I'm hoping they take a lot of this accrued stuff and rather than make it a 10% chance to spawn in your maps, make it like a .5% chance, but buff the rewards correspondingly.

If they don't do it in PoE 2, when will it ever happen? The game is getting uncomfortable cluttered, or close to it.

A couple years back in a Baeclast podcast Chris stated that they were near the limit on adding challenge league mechanics to the core so today PoE is at the limit and GGG will need to start rotating though 10 mechanics per league to not overload the little engine that could not keep up with the demands placed upon it.

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MECHanokl wrote:

I have doubts that a new engine can help PoE. Too much happens on screen, and their servers handle too many calculations. Whatever improvements they can (and should) do can be done with their current engine.

However, there is a clear (and very sad) case of GGG puting their artistic vision before player convenience and QoL. Why? Because GGG can already take steps to reduce performance issues, in particular:

1) Give players the option to reduce effects.
2) Reduce the number of monsters in general, and number of effects happening at the same time.

Spoiler

Number one they won't do because they are afraid of the representation of their game to potential viewers (really guys? a bunch of streamers play competitive games on all low, yet the popularity doesnt suffer because of it).

Number two is something they can also do, at least gradually to avoid upsetting players who like playing with their entire screen being one big indistinguishable mix of colorful effects and monsters. But not only do they not take any steps towards it, they actively make it worse every league. Legion - crap ton of monsters spawning all over you, Blight - a crap ton of monsters spawning in giant lines, Delirium - a crap ton of monsters spawning in addition to other monsters, with all of them also having fancy attacks and after death effects. Look at an older, and also probably one of the most well designed PoE bosses (not talking about difficulty here), Shaper. How much visual stuff is going on at the same time during his fight? Now look at freaking Sirus, or hell, even Catarina, or any metamorph.

This is, in my opinion, the worst part of this situation. They know that their game can't handle it, and it is in their power to reduce the quantity of monsters and effects a bit, or at least not make encounters and mechanics that put a lot more burden on the game... but they just don't, because screw you the player, we want hordes of monsters like it's a shoot them up, with loads of fancy explosions all over your face!

bump +1

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Arrowneous wrote:

You know I do have a life and with Delirium league (and probably all future leagues) being shit for any casual players I'm not playing this league much (none right now).

I know, I know GGG isn't going to be able to fix quality of play with their custom game engine. All I know is that a commercial engine from the get-go would have eliminated so many performance problems we are stuck with today.

You know what, to be honest, I don't think a commercial engine would have made a difference at all. In my years or watching game streams and playing games, I cannot recall a single game that was so reliant on spamming the player with sheer screen volume and calling it 'gameplay' I just don't see any commercial engine doing much better with POEs uncapped APS and server side calculations.

If the problem is the driver burning the clutch, upgrading them from a nissan to a ferrari isn't going to fix the problem.

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Powertrip wrote:

If the problem is the driver burning the clutch, upgrading them from a nissan to a ferrari isn't going to fix the problem.

Elegant.

i wonder what kinda slide-show would happen if you throw 100 enemies on a commercial "fps" engine at once?

i mean my fps gets about halved on Skyrim when a dragon decides to spawn over a city and everybody is doing things.

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PyleWarlord wrote:

i wonder what kinda slide-show would happen if you throw 100 enemies on a commercial "fps" engine at once?

i mean my fps gets about halved on Skyrim when a dragon decides to spawn over a city and everybody is doing things.

Not sure, but I do know that the relatively clutter free Last Epoch, using Unity, has performance issues at time. And that is running natively, whereas PoE runs with Wine and does usually fine.

often commercial engines are not better... take all the ARGPS made in unreal engine..they are not even a quarter as good as poe.. most companies with self made engines (theres many AAA titles out there with it) are very succesful games. for example even Battlefield (Frostbite engine) is very good. (and self made)

Isn't even LOL (league of legend) also based on it owns engine? and its like the most played online game..

So what was available and feasible when they started? Was UE3 out? Even if it was it wasn't great for ARPGs.

POE2 using say UE4 might make sense but I doubt they'd do it as they know their existing engine intimately.