After you watch this you'll really wish GGG could have afforded a commercial game engine .

PoE Feedback Section & GD threads lifecycle:

1) Ask to remove death penalty / new engine / free stash tabs / game is p2w
2) People reasoning against it and asking critical questions
3) No real arguments so the same old smelly ones are regurgitated 100 times
4) A new thread is made because the old one turned into a steaming pile of s...

I like to have opinions on things, but I try to be educated on the matter before I scream it out into the void.. :|

Using a commercial engine is no guarantee of a decent game, just look at Wolcen's use of Cryengine - it does look good & performs fine if you're just grubbing around low level content solo but suffers the same problems as POE in high level multiplayer stuff - desync, mass slowdowns when too many mobs on screen or certain skills are used etc.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

One issue with invoking Wargaming.net is that their cash cow is *spectacularly* pay to win. Completely different financial model to PoE's.

Quite true but I wasn't attempting to compare their business model with GGG's. Only that playing all other games with great smooth performance on my rig and Internet in 24 player battles in the Wargamer series to show how poor the PoE game engine is.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Another issue is GGG was never a 'struggling garage game startup'. It had decent support from the get-go ('we have rich friends', as Chris put it in the early Gamingplanet interview) and received decent support from then onward (I'd know). I've seen struggling startups come and go and that label never applied to GGG. Most of its struggles were internal. GGG has never faced stiff competition. It has never seen large drop-offs of support pack sales. And its biggest problems have been largely self-inflicted, such as the disastrous Garena ventures. Selling out to Tencent was easily the Best Ending for the New Zealand gaming studio GGG. Eaaaasily.

I could have sworn I remember Chris saying that in GGG's beginning they were cash poor struggling to get financial capital from friends and relatives and just didn't have the quarter million+ to get a commercial game engine licence back then (2005-2006). I'll never be able to find what Chris said back then (maybe I heard it in a podcast, just can't remember). Anyway from what I remember the cost kept GGG from being able to use a commercial game engine (like Wolcen has done). Also the whole "crowd funding" to get startup capital wasn't a thing yet so Chris and company had to forego using a commercial game engine to power PoE. That's how I remember it went down. If anyone can provide links to set the record straight I'd appreciate knowing if I'm in error.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Although creating their own engine probably started as a financial decision, I suspect it was a matter of pride and familiarity that has seen them continue to use it. Convenience aside, there are some major pitfalls when you use a third party engine and you're not very familiar with it. I don't know how well PoE's unique complexity would work with an existing engine.

True. As of at least 4 or 5 years ago GGG had so much time invested in their own game engine work that it would be financially and time-wise nigh impossible to convert PoE to a commercial game engine. As you are aware the game engine defines the 3D database infrastructure of any game and all the software tools required to create every game object for that engine. No way ever (even if money wasn't a factor) that GGG would throw out their engine in favor of a commercial game engine (that time has long since passed). Last I heard (as of a couple years ago at least) Chris said that a total conversion would be around 2½ years and growing. And for what end result? Better QoP for all and maybe good working multi-player. That ship has long sailed so we'e stuck with GGG's own engine and have to live with it or quit.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

That all said, I don't think this is an issue of engine at all so much as what you do with it. GGG just got way too ambitious and pushed their engine to do things it simply can't do well, probably never will do well. So the seemingly logical response is, 'get a better engine'. But 'better' isn't a simple issue when you've been using the same engine for years. When you've built around it, ensconcing it in addition after addition. It's like saying to a 60 year old with a bum ticker who insists on sprinting everywhere, 'just get a new body' when the more obvious solution is, y'know, maybe know your limits and stop acting like you're a teenager

I agree but at the end of the day PoE still has "relatively" poor performance (some comments about Delirium patches were that it was causing GPU melt down and high gpu fan noise trying to keep the gpu cool) that can't hold a candle to other games. You should know having moved to Wolcen, With it using the CryEngine the quality of play and visually it's massively better than PoE. And I'll bet you can party play smoothly too (I'm waiting until it gets much better debugged and balance tuned to try it).

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

And this, kids, is why most developers make actual sequels instead of 'evolving' their first game into some ghoulish chimeric abomination. PoE is like a geriatric version of the Six Million Dollar Man.

As for PoE '2', it baffles me why people are holding out for it being some sort of miraculous panacea to everything wrong with the game now. It's going to be the same engine, modified incrementally rather than suddenly (it's already begun, haven't you noticed?). I'm sure they'll do their best to streamline it, upgrade it, improve it, but there's only so much of that you can do with a home-made engine originally designed for a vehicle that might carry 100k people moving at 100km/h...but is now somehow expected to carry a million people at the speed of sound.

Yes, it's stupefying to see posts that PoE 2 will solve all our current QoP problems. No it won't! Only a decent speed 8 core 16 thread cpu, 16+ GB ram, a mid range or higher gpu, and an SSD on Windows 10 is the solution (read here for my proof). GGG isn't making PoE 2 around a new game engine and thus quality of play will not change much. From my understanding seeing the look of it at ExileCon the 7 acts of PoE 2 are paced slower so that may help overall QoP with fewer calculations per second overloads but in the end we're still in the same endgame whichever path we choose (10 PoE 1 acts or 7 PoE 2 acts) and that means the same game engine. How anyone ever comes up with PoE 2 fixing all our QoP headaches is way off base.

Nice chatting with you. Great to see you still peruse the PoE forums.

To exiles and all: Stay safe and have a great day.

I will always just rubbish posts that have something to do with "engines" and "optimization"

You know nothing and fail to see what PoE dose where nothing else can do it.
No other engine can throw around what PoE dose and still manage a semblance of playability and other games optimizations generally = dumbing down parts of their game, removing them or severely limiting them, that isn't optimizing, that just "i can't be fucked dealing with this so lets just remove it"

Sure things could be better, BUT they won't be better on an other engine, and sure thing could be better optimized, but THAT is always an ongoing process.

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lagwin1980 wrote:

I will always just rubbish posts that have something to do with "engines" and "optimization"

You know nothing and fail to see what PoE dose where nothing else can do it.
No other engine can throw around what PoE dose and still manage a semblance of playability and other games optimizations generally = dumbing down parts of their game, removing them or severely limiting them, that isn't optimizing, that just "i can't be fucked dealing with this so lets just remove it"

Sure things could be better, BUT they won't be better on an other engine, and sure thing could be better optimized, but THAT is always an ongoing process.

It's impossible to definitely tell, same as it's impossible to tell if apples are better than oranges. Our "what if" theorizing on the PoE game being better by GGG rolling their own or better if they had started with a polished commercial engine can never be totally answered. But for the sake of discussion, which would you prefer, an arpg built on a commercial game engine that has already had many millions of dollars and years of development invested to refined it's performance or for a home rolled game engine that evolved over time as the developers learned the craft of game engine design?

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Latze wrote:

with ur 2 supporter packs ggg will never have the money for a better engine

What a shitty comment

WHERE ARE ALL WHO ATTACKED ME WHEN I SAID POE NEEDS NEW ENGIN?
WHERE ARE THOSE TROLLS NOW?
hiding under rocks, looking at their suporter packs that they cant use because their fps goes to hell once they enable them?
WHERE ARE U , TROLL DEFENDORS? HUH?

POE NEEDS NEW ENGINE OR IS DEAD ON ARRIVAL
DELIRIUM PROVED ME RIGHT , MASSIVE SPAGHETTI CODE FIASCO AND ANTIQUATED , BASEMENT HOME MADE ENGIN = FAIL

I SAID THIS BEFORE DELIRUM
I WAS RIGHT
LOOK WHO DEFEND THIS ENGIN AND GAME FOR A MOMENT....100 SUPPORTER PACK OWNERS WHO DESEPRATLY TRY TO JUSTIFY THEIR INVESTMENT THAT OBV DID NOT WENT INTO MAKE A BETTER GAME

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I could have sworn I remember Chris saying that in GGG's beginning they were cash poor struggling to get financial capital from friends and relatives and just didn't have the quarter million+ to get a commercial game engine licence back then (2005-2006). I'll never be able to find what Chris said back then (maybe I heard it in a podcast, just can't remember). Anyway from what I remember the cost kept GGG from being able to use a commercial game engine (like Wolcen has done). Also the whole "crowd funding" to get startup capital wasn't a thing yet so Chris and company had to forego using a commercial game engine to power PoE. That's how I remember it went down. If anyone can provide links to set the record straight I'd appreciate knowing if I'm in error.

I could ahve sworn that after 10 years, maybe 20% of what ppl invested in this game went to improving performance,rest went to paying overbuged salaries and making more mtx
half of employees are "artists" .... this should tell u something!

Imagine comparing a game with literally 100s of enemies on screen with any effect flying off,compared to fps with certai limitations POS p2w game...

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KopaKabana wrote:

WHERE ARE ALL WHO ATTACKED ME WHEN I SAID POE NEEDS NEW ENGIN?
WHERE ARE THOSE TROLLS NOW?
hiding under rocks, looking at their suporter packs that they cant use because their fps goes to hell once they enable them?
WHERE ARE U , TROLL DEFENDORS? HUH?

POE NEEDS NEW ENGINE OR IS DEAD ON ARRIVAL
DELIRIUM PROVED ME RIGHT , MASSIVE SPAGHETTI CODE FIASCO AND ANTIQUATED , BASEMENT HOME MADE ENGIN = FAIL

I SAID THIS BEFORE DELIRUM
I WAS RIGHT
LOOK WHO DEFEND THIS ENGIN AND GAME FOR A MOMENT....100 SUPPORTER PACK OWNERS WHO DESEPRATLY TRY TO JUSTIFY THEIR INVESTMENT THAT OBV DID NOT WENT INTO MAKE A BETTER GAME

Maybe they got bored or realized there can be no fruitful discussion this topic.