After you watch this you'll really wish GGG could have afforded a commercial game engine .
" Ah, you reached further back than me. It's probably true when it was just the core founders (Chris, Jonathan, maybe Erik) and literally being worked on a garage that they were struggling to raise capital but by the time they were in alpha, definitely not the case. But by then they'd very likely committed to their home-grown engine. And to be fair, it was a really good one for a first go. Even the much-maligned predictive mode, with its awful desync, was very well done. A clever solution to a problem whose redundancy GGG couldn't have anticipated. After all, they knew the game, unlike virtually any other ARPG to date, *had* to be online-only, and as Wolcen revealed recently, netcode for multiplayer is one of the most difficult aspects of making an ARPG. Torchlight 1 didn't even bother trying. MOST ARPGs were P2P and had robust offline modes. No such option when you're going for a free to play mtx-driven model. And who knows? Maybe no existing engine in the 2000s could have accommodated that. Hypothetical really: they made their own engine and for far longer than it should have been, it was The Little Engine That Could. Just another part of the multifaceted miracle that is Underdog: The PoE Story (premieres 8pm on the Lifetime channel). " Speaking of Wolcen Studio, they've done pretty amazing things with Cryengine in terms of adapting it for an ARPG *but* their problems are much bigger than GGG's on all sorts of other fronts, many of them dealbreakers for a lot of gamers, and understandably so. They are, however, more palatable issues for me. It fails in ways I can accept and embrace. PoE succeeds in ways I cannot. I felt much the same in 2012 about PoE and D3 respectively. I maintain that PoE's core issues are not engine-based. They are much more about the divide between conceptualisation and implementation. That's kind of abstract, and choice or availability of engine likely comes into play, but it's fairly easy to grasp when you look at PoE practically. When you consider what it seems to want to do, and what it seems to struggle to do. The gap between those two cannot feasibly be bridged by any existing engine I think. Either because learning an existing engine would be too much work (and fraught with extreme risk, as the Anthem exposé made clear) or because creating an engine to fit the task would...yknow, be the domain of Path of Exile 2. Like I said, that's part of why developers do sequels, at least from a creative perspective. They have a much clearer idea of what they want to do and what they need to do it. This is naturally not restricted to games development. It can be applied *anything* where you learn from past mistakes, past overreaches. No one gets it right the first time, and Path of Exile is, for all its renovations, modifications, improvements...for all that, it is GGG's first game. Consider their main rival for that BAFTA for Best Evolving Game: Hello Games, makers of one of the great comeback stories in gaming, No Man's Sky. That was not even their first game. And many argued they didn't get it right even that fourth time. GGG did not get it right the first time. They've just done it less wrong than anyone else for years. So after all this best-worst-option success, why aren't you getting a real Path of Exile 2 with an engine up to the task of carrying all the brilliance in PoE 1's many complexities? A number of reasons, I imagine. The big one's probably the investment by long-time players in PoE 1. All those mtxes, titles. Stash tabs. They'd be extremely difficult to transition to a new game, a new engine. And would people who've put 1k+ into POE 1 over the years really be okay with a whole new game that isn't compatible with 'their' mtxes? I mean, how many mtx-heavy free to play games can you name with a proper sequel? Amusingly, the very financial model that attracts so many players and so much support is possibly the main reason you're not getting the game you deserve. GO FIGURE! :) But that's another big reason developers do sequels. Traditionally, games had much shorter lifespans and only a sequel could give fans more of what they wanted. And this is why GGG chose to call a new campaign and some systemic overhauls 'PoE 2' rather than 'PoE 4.0', and why Blizzard are doing the same with Overwatch. The basic idea of the sequel as a means of making more money is much less defined nowadays, now that we can download massive updates in a matter of minutes. That said, in both GGG and Blizzard's case, I think they're not doing anywhere near enough new on a fundamental level to earn the word 'sequel', but I'm old-fashioned and feel a sequel should be more than just more-of-the-same. It should excise what failed the first time and build on what worked. You can't do that if your idea of a sequel is built not just on the foundation of the first title, but its entire structure. ANYWAY! PoE 1 doesn't need a new engine. It really doesn't need anything other than GGG to keep making new shit for it and people to keep supporting them for doing so. But if performance is a real issue, and an issue that affects that core requisite for its survival, then a new engine won't be the solution. Paring back the demands on the inextricable existing engine will be. That's a really big IF by the way. Really...really big. As for me still posting: I never really quit. I just divested myself of a certain uniform that no longer fit. ^_^ If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between. I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. Last edited by Foreverhappychan#4626 on Apr 4, 2020, 1:03:06 PM
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Bless you, Therion.
If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between. I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. Last edited by Foreverhappychan#4626 on Apr 4, 2020, 11:05:15 AM
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people seem to forgot that even D3 struggles alot when pushing the limits aka too much clutter on the screen.
so if Blizz cannot get their engine working on high monster count situations.. well d:-D*
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" I'm still here and I still disagree with you, your arguments and the way you conduct yourself on the forum. Excuse you. The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
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" This. I have purchased supporter packs in the past and I might again, maybe. I used the points for stash tabs as the QOL is well worth the on-sale price they charge. Full priced, no way in hell would I have bought them. As I play through the game this league, I can't help but think how many skin transfers they could sell if every unique had an in-game model. I'd buy a stack of the things to customize my toons and it would make the unique collection tab more valuable. IMO, of course. Not related to the armchair dev's OP but whatever... There are two types of POE players:
1) Those who want to walk uphill both ways barefoot on broken glass wearing a blindfold 2) F*cking noobs I identify as transnational Chinese. May I have access to their QOL features, please? |
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chris said their own game engine is better than anything available commercially because it's specifically tailored for poe
the actual quality of graphics might be worse but if op is worried about things like fps ggg is probably telling the truth on this one |
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" This. People who shit on the POE engine have no clue what they are talking about, period. I believe GGG did the right thing writing their own engine. All commercial engines were created for one specific purpose and then altered to try to make them viable for different types of games. UE, Godot, Unity, Cryengine, Hero Engine, Lumberjack and any other tool you can find while Googling all excel at certain types of games but require a ton of code-fu to work for others. UE pretty much sucks for 2D, for example. GGG created an engine designed from the ground up for their isometric top-down action RPG and it's a slick piece of code. I'm impressed by it every time I play. I would give a testicle of their choice to be able to sit down with their code to see how it all works. But, please (not directed at the poster I quoted) continue to read random crap you find while searching for reasons to shit on GGG and think you're an expert. It's amusing. There are two types of POE players:
1) Those who want to walk uphill both ways barefoot on broken glass wearing a blindfold 2) F*cking noobs I identify as transnational Chinese. May I have access to their QOL features, please? |
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" Still waiting, Arrowneous. Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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It's a fucking amazing engine.
It's still apparently not up to the task of supporting their even more fucking amazing creative ideas. I'm not sure any engine would be. Soooo...you have limited options. Improve the engine to be up to the task of these increasingly demanding ideas, or change the task by reining in those ideas. I do wonder if PoE '2' will be more of the latter than is obvious... If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between.
I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period. |
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" It's no secret that GGG have been overly ambition when it comes to recent content. They seem very hellbent on pushing more and more monsters on the screen, followed by more and more visual effects. At some point, even they have to ask themselves; "are we closing in on too much?". Too much when it comes to the visual presentation? Too much when we're talking about the possibility of balancing this mess? Too much when it comes to the performance? But yeah, no, I don't think the magic answer to 'most' of GGG's problems is a new engine. For a gamer, sitting behind his monitor experiencing performance issues? Sure, a new engine might seem like a good idea. The grass is always greener, right? But I think most of the answers are found in design choices and more focus on another words starting with "qua", rather than "quantity". Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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