Let's Discuss This League / Standard Trading Listing Feature

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Bex_GGG wrote:

I'll bring this up.

Any word on this?

Ok so while talking to people in global within the game, one person pointed out to me an old post long BEFORE this site got the trade feature it currently has. So this issue has been long since rampant since the very first league.

This is a major issue that needs attention ASAP


http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/541124

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After extensive player feedback and internal discussion, we are disallowing cross-league trading between the long-term (Standard/Hardcore) leagues and the challenge leagues (Essence and Hardcore Essence). You can still perform cross-league trades (at your own risk) between a league and its hardcore version (Standard to Hardcore, Hardcore to Standard, Essence to Hardcore Essence or Harcore Essence to Essence).

We feel that allowing people to trade prior gametime into advantage in the new three-month leagues is an advantage akin to RMT.

This policy may change in the future, for example disallowing all cross-league trading entirely.

Edit: The same applies to race events. You can't trade items into a one-week race for example.
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Last edited by Chris on Oct 15, 2013, 7:47:57 PM
Last bumped on Aug 8, 2018, 5:43:12 PM


Posted by
Chris
on Oct 15, 2013, 7:47:06 PMGrinding Gear Games

To anyone that's confused about what this topic or issue is, look at my previous responses and post within this thread. This is NOT about

1) Bots

2) Fake price listings with obvious troll prices

3) Auction house or the demand for a similar function based on in game items and not based on real money.

Trading is not about having the easiest method of trade, otherwise the 3 above and more would be either game legal or already implemented (see trade manifesto) which again this issue is NOT about.

What this issue IS about however is the fact that players in Standard league have to work 2 - 3 times harder to make simple trades, from items they have looked up online within their OWN league and that are currently shown to be online. 90% of the listings are essentially dead space due to items being shown from players outside of the league.

Also, this is outright cross league trading which is against GGG's own policy. The current way the trade system is setup, provides an outrageous disadvantage for everyone that plays Standard ; simply to accommodate players that outright refuse to switch leagues for a trade AND do not want to be bothered.


Most temp league players do not want to play on Standard league, except between temporary leagues. Ever since this new trade system, league players have abused the convenient options they have such as

a)Turning off their own post listings

b)Being able to trade while outside of their respective league

While it can be debated if FEW of them may have forgotten being able to control their own listings; many of them DO know and realize this but just don't care. Players should NOT have to skip over 10 + listings for their own league, because they run into postings from players that are NOT even in the same league!

"I don't switch leagues to trade unless it's for a certain amount" is the common rationalization that's being used as an excuse. If you DONT want to trade an item that YOU have posted for a certain price and you deem it as "NOT being important enough to switch over", then it's equally unimportant enough to have the same listings being shown while playing OUTSIDE of the respective league that the item(s) are posted in.




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TL;DR - When searching for trade listings online within a specific league online; the only ones should be shown are based on whatever the logged on character is currently playing on.

I love your passion.

But...

I have to disagree with a few things here.

Firstly, I think your definition of "cross-league trading" is a bit skewed. The cross-league trading that is disallowed is when one player offers item(s) in a permanent league (e.g. Standard) in exchange for item(s) in a challenge league (e.g. Delerium). That's explained in the very post you linked.

But, if a player has items in Standard for sale, and they want to play in Delerium for a while but keep their Standard items available to trade to other Standard players...

That's neither cross-league trading, nor is it disallowed. In fact, the system is explicitly designed to allow that. And it should be.

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When logged into this site, you may also choose how your in-game status is used for trade-related searches. By default, your status will show for items you have listed in the league that you are currently playing in. You may opt to show your status regardless of what league you are playing if you so choose.

As I see it, the problem you are complaining about is that some players set their status to "show regardless of league" but then ignore Standard trade requests because ... well, it doesn't matter the reason. They ignore the trade and the (Standard) player requesting the trade is inconvenienced.

Also from what I can tell, your proposed solution is to only ever show items for sale for players actively playing in the item's league, so a player playing in the challenge league only has their challenge league items listed. Their Standard items for sale would not be listed.

Honestly, that would be a non-starter. Being able to switch leagues to trade with another player is a legitimate playstyle that GGG doesn't want to (and shouldn't) eliminate.

Currently the system only allows to filter for *items* in a specific league, and whether the player is *online or not* (regardless of which league they're in, based on the *seller's* trade settings).

The best solution I can think of is to provide a trade filter for the *Buyer* so that the *Buyer* can filter to only items for players currently online *and playing in the selected league*.

Something like



This would allow buyers in Standard to still see Standard items for players currently playing in another league, and go through the hassle of asking the seller to switch leagues if they want to.

For other buyers, like WoT_Seanchan, who don't want to have to ask for league switching, they'll just see fewer options in the search results. They might lose out on some trades, but they'll not have to worry about challenge league players.

But please don't disable my ability to sell my Standard items to other Standard players just because I popped over to the challenge league for a few days.

It makes no sense to allow a temp league to double dip in the trade listings. This has been hurting standard players for too long now. If temp league players want to double dip then they should be the ones having to work twice as hard.

Asking for the listings to only appear based on the logged in char's league is NOT an unreasonable ask. Whenever they choose to trade in standard their items would appear when playing on a standard league's char. It's not people would have to repost their items altogether.

What do you mean by "double dipping"?

When you search for items, you must choose a league to filter by. The items returned in the search results are items in the filtered league only. You will not see challenge league items if you filter for Standard. You will not see Standard items if you filter for challenge league. You will only ever see items from one league at a time. I don't understand what you mean by "double dipping".

Asking for listings to only ever appear based only on the logged in character's league IS an unreasonable ask. Some players flip back and forth between leagues regularly, and that is a legitimate play style. Sometimes I play in Standard and I want to see all the Standard items for sale, regardless of the league the seller is logged in as, or sometimes even if the seller isn't logged in at all. There's nothing wrong with that.

That's why I suggested a buyer-oriented filter, so that you can play the way you want to, and others can play the way they want to. You want to filter out players not currently playing in your league, go ahead. Currently, you cannot do so and I sympathize. But I don't think the solution is to just disable the listings altogether.

Why not just let standard items appear among the temp league's listings then? You'll end up reaching a player that's not in your league. Same concept. You don't want to talk to someone outside of your league to buy an item.

Even more so to the point, the majority of temp league players don't want to talk to someone outside of their league for trades either. There are very very few temp league players that don't mind switching over. This issue can be avoided altogether by having the online listings appear only to the respective league your char is in. If you want to trade in standard and worry about standard trades, then simply switch over to your standard league's char.

Instead, standard players have to keep scrolling and messaging 10, 20+ people that are in temp leagues instead. That makes no sense.

Yeah it sucks but the trade API is the issue here.

Both poe.trade and mothership trade listings dump standard items into the search pool for league shoppers.

I'd say about half to 2/3 of the messages I get for my standard items listed in standard, are from league players who either don't know about the settings to restrict list results to <current league>, or these items are showing up in searches without any league identifier.

The problem isn't that I'm in standard and they're in league. It's that the item I have listed is in Standard and doesn't exist in League.

For poe.trade it usually means shoppers need to pick the current league from the drop-down menu, i.e. user error.

For the mothership though, there's an extra step for sellers, and for every optional fiddly setting in a service, you introduce 50% more hassles and errors due to players not seeing it or ignoring it.

(FWIW on the rare occasions I get a cross league request for an item legit in their respective league, I will msg them and either switch or arrange a time when I'll be back in their league. No reason to be a dbag if it's a sale you can actually make.)

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WoT_Seanchan wrote:

Why not just let standard items appear among the temp league's listings then?

Why would they do that? We don't see temp league items when filtering for Standard league. We only see item listings for items that are for sale in the league we've filtered for. The *players* may be logged in to a different league, but we're still only seeing *items* for sale in the league we've chosen.

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WoT_Seanchan wrote:

You'll end up reaching a player that's not in your league. Same concept. You don't want to talk to someone outside of your league to buy an item.

If I'm playing in temp league, and I search for items in temp league, the items that display may well be for sale by players who are currently playing in Standard. It doesn't happen that often, because most players who play long enough in temp league to have items for sale there usually continue playing in temp league. But it certainly *can* happen.

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WoT_Seanchan wrote:

You don't want to talk to someone outside of your league to buy an item.

But - what if I do? What if I want to sell some items in temp league but I want to play in Standard for a while, or vice versa? What if I'm willing to switch leagues for a minute to make a sale? Should that ability just be unilaterally removed?

The inability for the buyer to filter by logged-in league is a problem, and it disproportionately affects Standard players for sure. It should be addressed by adding an additional player filter. It should not be addressed by completely removing a perfectly legitimate play style.

I actually messaged another player for a listed and priced item in STD that had only been listed for 5 days and got this response:
"No Standard Trades"

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AcrylicHercules wrote:

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WoT_Seanchan wrote:

Why not just let standard items appear among the temp league's listings then?

Why would they do that? We don't see temp league items when filtering for Standard league. We only see item listings for items that are for sale in the league we've filtered for. The *players* may be logged in to a different league, but we're still only seeing *items* for sale in the league we've chosen.

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WoT_Seanchan wrote:

You'll end up reaching a player that's not in your league. Same concept. You don't want to talk to someone outside of your league to buy an item.

If I'm playing in temp league, and I search for items in temp league, the items that display may well be for sale by players who are currently playing in Standard. It doesn't happen that often, because most players who play long enough in temp league to have items for sale there usually continue playing in temp league. But it certainly *can* happen.

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WoT_Seanchan wrote:

You don't want to talk to someone outside of your league to buy an item.

But - what if I do? What if I want to sell some items in temp league but I want to play in Standard for a while, or vice versa? What if I'm willing to switch leagues for a minute to make a sale? Should that ability just be unilaterally removed?

The inability for the buyer to filter by logged-in league is a problem, and it disproportionately affects Standard players for sure. It should be addressed by adding an additional player filter. It should not be addressed by completely removing a perfectly legitimate play style.

The current filter is basic and clear cut, which is to have the listings separated based on leagues. Otherwise they may as well just merge everything together and you just hope to pm a person within the league you're in. Which is exactly the problem with the Standard listings. You never know what player you're getting, despite selecting Standard.

The perfectly legitimate play style that's going on with trading has been obviously abused. Needs an overhaul. Way too much of this "I don't trade in standard " crap going on for items that are listed in the first place. If the item isn't worth the time to trade, then it's not worth being shown. There's no way around that.