If Lootboxes get banned in US, what's an alternative?

ggg's mystery boxes are pretty good for its price.

people without self control causes the issue and it affects every customer.

it's sad but that's just how things work.


but there's always a way. im pretty sure ggg has decent lawers to deal with it.

nothing happens, ggg is seated in new zealand and has no office in the states and so doesn't fall under american jurisdiction.

as long as the nz government is not making it a local law, ggg can ignore it, especially since they don't know where a player lives.

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vio wrote:

nothing happens, ggg is seated in new zealand and has no office in the states and so doesn't fall under american jurisdiction.

as long as the nz government is not making it a local law, ggg can ignore it, especially since they don't know where a player lives.

That's not at all the way any laws work, my dude. Anything sold to American customers has to comply with American consumer law, just like for any other country.

A good example of this is how Bethesda didn't put children in any of their games for a long time, because Australian laws would have made it illegal to sell Oblivion there if it contained any depictions of violence against children. Even though Bethesda is an American company, selling their product in another country required compliance with those laws.

To the point of loot boxes:

As people have said already, the worst case outcome here is that mystery boxes are no longer allowed to be sold to US customers. But even that isn't a definite thing, because mystery boxes might not be part of the "loot box law" to begin with. It'll all depend on the exact specific wording within the bill in question at the time of ratification, but I could see POE being exempted for any/all of the following reasons:

1 - Mystery boxes are cosmetic-only, and do not contain anything which impacts gameplay
2 - POE is a free to play game, not a premium title
3 - The possible contents of a mystery box are known, and that information made available
4 - Nothing you can get from a mystery box is available through unlock through normal gameplay (i.e., the box is never a shortcut past a grindwall)

If absolutely any of these four are mentioned as cause for exemption within the bill (very, very likely), GGG is in the clear. If not... well, it's like people have said already. No boxes sold to Americans, nothing else changes.

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raysuko wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I'm thoroughly confident that only loot boxes that require real-money purchase would be prohibited by law. GGG would no longer be able to offer Mystery Boxes to US customers, but that would be about it.

I could absolutely be wrong, but I think most of their MTX money comes from the boxes. Since there are chances for getting expensive stuff for really low costs.

I would say that's wrong.

Where I came from before, SWTOR, lootboxes were a huge aspect of the economy because they were the only source of the desired items outside of gear from operations, you couldn't buy them outright but actually had to gamble. Granted, at least their mtx unlocks could go accountwide making cosmetics a lot more appealing.

But yeah, PoE on the other hand offers direct purchase, and being able to just buy what you really want sure beats hoping for it and getting a bunch of crap or random stuff.

I'm not as positive that loot boxes make up their biggest source of income; stash tabs during sales are probably their biggest sinks of points spent.

Still, such a shift would force GGG to step back towards the "ethical microtransactions" they started off with as their basis.

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Fruz wrote:

Why should GGG do something specifically about the US ?

Why should ANYBODY do anything specifically about the US regarding such things ?

The United States is the biggest market in gaming; bigger than the entire European Union combined. (which makes sense, given the USA has a GDP of $21 trillion vs. $16 trillion for the EU)

Also, legal conditions can change in the USA much quicker than in the EU, leaving much less time for warning: in the EU, changes typically come as an order for its member states to adjust their laws accordingly, but in the USA, a single federal law or court case can instantaneously change the landscape with no warning: there's no "wait for the states to adjust their laws," it just happens then and there.

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vio wrote:

nothing happens, ggg is seated in new zealand and has no office in the states and so doesn't fall under american jurisdiction.

as long as the nz government is not making it a local law, ggg can ignore it, especially since they don't know where a player lives.

This is wildly uneducated.

To do business in a country, you have to operate it under their laws. You can't just go "Well, I'm legally allowed to just use my home country's laws, coincidentally chosen for being a place with no real restrictions!"

And while they can't pinpoint an exact location for players, they most certainly know where the financial institutions they're dealing with are.

Also, they DO operate in three separate datacenters in the United States, including the master character server, and ARE in the works of opening an office in California, so even if your argument wasn't breathtakingly ignorant, it'd still be wrong.

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ACGIFT wrote:

I'm not as positive that loot boxes make up their biggest source of income; stash tabs during sales are probably their biggest sinks of points spent.

Still, such a shift would force GGG to step back towards the "ethical microtransactions" they started off with as their basis.

"

Fruz wrote:

Why should GGG do something specifically about the US ?

Why should ANYBODY do anything specifically about the US regarding such things ?

The United States is the biggest market in gaming; bigger than the entire European Union combined. (which makes sense, given the USA has a GDP of $21 trillion vs. $16 trillion for the EU)

Also, legal conditions can change in the USA much quicker than in the EU, leaving much less time for warning: in the EU, changes typically come as an order for its member states to adjust their laws accordingly, but in the USA, a single federal law or court case can instantaneously change the landscape with no warning: there's no "wait for the states to adjust their laws," it just happens then and there.

"

vio wrote:

nothing happens, ggg is seated in new zealand and has no office in the states and so doesn't fall under american jurisdiction.

as long as the nz government is not making it a local law, ggg can ignore it, especially since they don't know where a player lives.

This is wildly uneducated.

To do business in a country, you have to operate it under their laws. You can't just go "Well, I'm legally allowed to just use my home country's laws, coincidentally chosen for being a place with no real restrictions!"

And while they can't pinpoint an exact location for players, they most certainly know where the financial institutions they're dealing with are.

Also, they DO operate in three separate datacenters in the United States, including the master character server, and ARE in the works of opening an office in California, so even if your argument wasn't breathtakingly ignorant, it'd still be wrong.

us might be the biggest overall market but this isnt true for all games
i.e. some of those "dress up your anime girl" games only sell well in japan

ggg actually can ignore the lootbox laws from US and just sell lootboxes outside of US

i´m always amused when some ppl from US call certain things unethical and yet allowing a lot of IMO unethical things

I guess if they simply dont allow us player (or any player in country that forbid lootbox ) to buy them i guess it work.
They can also hide lootbox on poe website and do content access depending on the country ip . They dont need to fully remove them (even if i wish they do ^^) .
Video game have an history of selling different version of the game depending on the country law its not new. (remove blood/remove some adult content ...)

VPN is all that will happen.
Problem solved

Idk why people are complaining, GGG makes their money off supporter pack purchases, which some do spend on the boxes, while others just wait for what they want.

This doesn't need regulated for POE, it needs regulated for games that give you actual advantages in games.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

That's not at all the way any laws work, my dude. Anything sold to American customers has to comply with American consumer law, just like for any other country.

you're not a customer of ggg, you don't buy stuff on ggg's website.

you get a temporary license to enable some bits in their database with no rights of owning anything as a thank you for your free support towards the game.

if america wants to enforce their law on another country they need to block the service so it isn't reached from their country.

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but you don't have to get so far, if you buy stuff from another country, the law of the country where the company is selling from, applies.

this is even valid inbetween the european union, if i buy a car in france, french law applies because this is included in the contract i sign.

i would be happy if i buy stuff in the US over the internet and could enforce german law on the contract. i might try but i already hear the laughters over the ocean right into germany.


there is a exception though: if a company has a office in the respective country, that office can get sued.
every bigger game company has offices for customer support and stuff in bigger countries and so is liable to the local law.