Evasion and Damage Reflection questions

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Completed 36 Challengessherkhan wrote:
This is huge, and extremely important to anyone trying to figure out penetration/reflect mechanics.

If I deal 1000 Light Dmg with 30% Light Penetration to a monster with 0 resists, I cause 1300 Light Dmg, of which 18% is reflected back to me.

Frankly, it's broken.

Life Leech seems to be a decent mitigation against Ele Reflect (maybe even swapping to a Bloodseeker for Ele crowds).

However, using the Light Penetration gem, with a 8% Life Leech, I only get to leech back 8% of the 1000 Damage dealt, not the 1300 Damage received by the monster.
But that's not true, and never has been. Leech is also calculated from the damage that's actually dealt, not some theoretical number of what the damage would have been if it wasn't mitigated.
Quite a bit of misunderstandings of reflect on this thread. Tiki taki (and of course mark) are right. Reflected damage is reduced by your own defenses. And leech is based on actual damage dealt.

While it's true you can't evade reflected lionseye attacks, those can still be dodged by acrobatics. Also, if you're using an accuracy build instead of a glare then chances are your chance to evade reflected damage would still be petty low since you would have stacked accuracy.

Lastly, reflect is now 18% and not 20.this was needed due to the life nerf

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Mark_GGG wrote:
Leech is also calculated from the damage that's actually dealt, not some theoretical number of what the damage would have been if it wasn't mitigated.


Does that mean if I hit a monster with 1 hitpoint that's protected by 'allies don't die' that nothing will be reflected since it's essentially mitigating 100% of the damage at that point?
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Mark_GGG wrote:
20% of the damage it actually took is reflected back to you, and affected by your mitigation.

Bolded for emphasis... so like, does how much life the monster have matter? Because if it's got 500 life and is dealt 400 damage it's like 'I can take that, 100 life to spare!'. If it's only got 300 life though it's more like 'I just took 300 damage, I can't take any more, I'm clocking out!' and rolls over dead. Getting into the 'overkill' issue and how that works. Think I've seen that overkill damage is reflected, but not sure how reflect works. I don't presume it to all make sense or to know what sense it does make as it seems to be a system that's still a work in progress.
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Doushibag wrote:
Does that mean if I hit a monster with 1 hitpoint that's protected by 'allies don't die' that nothing will be reflected since it's essentially mitigating 100% of the damage at that point?
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Doushibag wrote:
Bolded for emphasis... so like, does how much life the monster have matter? Because if it's got 500 life and is dealt 400 damage it's like 'I can take that, 100 life to spare!'. If it's only got 300 life though it's more like 'I just took 300 damage, I can't take any more, I'm clocking out!' and rolls over dead. Getting into the 'overkill' issue and how that works. Think I've seen that overkill damage is reflected, but not sure how reflect works. I don't presume it to all make sense or to know what sense it does make as it seems to be a system that's still a work in progress.
No on both counts. Taking damage (usually) causes life to be removed, but leech and reflect both care about the damage taken, not the amount of life removed. Against the 'cannot die' aura, the monster still takes damage, but the effect of taking that damage is prevented from removing the last life - that doesn't change the value of damage taken. Similarly for taking more damage than you have life - if a monster with 300 life takes 400 damage, then it still took 400 damage, it just stopped losing life at 300 because it ran out.
Thanks for the answers Mark.
i'm using 2 bloodseeker claws on my evasion melee ranger and i still have huge problems with reflect. i just randomly die specially to low hp mobs.

i've got 21k dps and 9% lecch on each claw. i don't understand what's going on... isn't bloodseeker life leech working like vaal pact? why am i dying?
My Build http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/496321
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IGN: Elyf
Last edited by inamory on Aug 19, 2013, 8:22:34 PM
You should specify the stats of your character, as well as some details of your build.
Sorry Exile, but your loot is in another dungeon!
IGN: Delirii
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Mark_GGG wrote:
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Completed 36 Challengessherkhan wrote:
This is huge, and extremely important to anyone trying to figure out penetration/reflect mechanics.

If I deal 1000 Light Dmg with 30% Light Penetration to a monster with 0 resists, I cause 1300 Light Dmg, of which 18% is reflected back to me.

Frankly, it's broken.

Life Leech seems to be a decent mitigation against Ele Reflect (maybe even swapping to a Bloodseeker for Ele crowds).

However, using the Light Penetration gem, with a 8% Life Leech, I only get to leech back 8% of the 1000 Damage dealt, not the 1300 Damage received by the monster.
But that's not true, and never has been. Leech is also calculated from the damage that's actually dealt, not some theoretical number of what the damage would have been if it wasn't mitigated.


Thanks for the clarification.

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