Can we stop pretending that Path of Exile is free to play?

Why to have 5000 chaos at all?
to trade?
for high value items, most people use exalted.

the chaos orbs take too much space? sell them for exalted and save space.

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Boem wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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jtggm1985 wrote:

Arguing with both Boem and Aynix is pointless, especially when it comes to the very minor pay to win advantages of stash tabs. I don't dispute the game is free to play, but the definition of pay to win is literally any advantage you pay the game for that others who don't pay can't get within the game. The fact that third party apps allow you to list items is irrelevant. Same is posting on the forums to list. Neither are in the game, and therefore, the automatic listing advantage qualifies as pay to win, albeit one of a very mild form of advantage.

I agree completely!

Except that his argument fals flat on its face because everybody has access to the data stream.

You know, thats how people made the trading apps in the first place right? Before GGG made their own trading feature on the web-site and provided a stash tab that links with it.
edit : here is how stupid his and by extension your argument is, since you agreed with him.

GGG copy's a tool designed by the community that is free for everybody, puts its stamp of authority and approval on it and sells it and now its a P2W feature.
All the while the tools are still available for everybody to use with the same features that GGG copied.

The only people that could come up with such a line of reasoning are ignorant, either on the trading tools and their functionality's or about the chain of events and what GGG did.

All GGG did was cash in on the irrational fear of people that don't trust third party software and also delivered on a long standing issue of the game not having a solid trading platform which gave rise to the third party tools in the first place.

It wasn't worth responding to since the chain of events is backwards, but since you brought it up, eh.

Peace,

-Boem-

You missed the point boem, as usual. Neither GGG's trading app nor any other is IN THE GAME. Therefore you, a player in said game, have only one IN-GAME way to list items for searching, and that's paid tabs. That gives those who have them an advantage over those who don't. That is pay to win by the accepted definition writ large. Prior to the premium tabs, everyone had to go out of game to actually list items, or spam their sales in trade chat. With premium tabs you no longer have to go out of game to list.

Hi, brand new player here just started last night.

All I know is that I did not get charged anything on Steam to download this game so it is free, is it not?

I also just bought a supporter pack out of my own accord to help support the game but that was my choice.

I don't really understand how trading works and what the deal is with these premium stash tabs so I can't form an opinion on that yet.

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

Hi, brand new player here just started last night.

All I know is that I did not get charged anything on Steam to download this game so it is free, is it not?

I also just bought a supporter pack out of my own accord to help support the game but that was my choice.

I don't really understand how trading works and what the deal is with these premium stash tabs so I can't form an opinion on that yet.

You are right, it IS free to play. Everyone telling you otherwise is;
a) Cheap
b) Misguided when it comes to what a F2P game is
c) Stupid

You will notice what "special tabs" are, and you will feel encouraged to buy some of them at some point. The game throws A LOT of items/shards/orbs/fragments at you when you reach endgame, and some additional storage is a little bit more than just "handy". Some people call it P2W, I understand why, but I don't agree. But even if they were P2W, it wouldn't make PoE any less F2P.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

Hi, brand new player here just started last night.

All I know is that I did not get charged anything on Steam to download this game so it is free, is it not?

I also just bought a supporter pack out of my own accord to help support the game but that was my choice.

I don't really understand how trading works and what the deal is with these premium stash tabs so I can't form an opinion on that yet.

You are right, it IS free to play. Everyone telling you otherwise is;
a) Cheap
b) Misguided when it comes to what a F2P game is
c) Stupid

You will notice what "special tabs" are, and you will feel encouraged to buy some of them at some point. The game throws A LOT of items/shards/orbs/fragments at you when you reach endgame, and some additional storage is a little bit more than just "handy". Some people call it P2W, I understand why, but I don't agree. But even if they were P2W, it wouldn't make PoE any less F2P.

Ya, to me, P2W are things like when D2 first came out with the RMAH and people were paying $200 for just a yellow item that had perfect stats and you could do that the second you made a new character.

WoW to me is similar whereas you can buy in-game gold to buy things off the AH (or legit farm for them) but ultimately it's still P2W. Although I'd say no amount of buying gear would let you survive in a mythic raid or not die in high ranked PvP, but MMO's are different than ARPG so I digress.

Stash space has always been a hot topic and people on the D2 forums have constantly said they would gladly pay $$$ for more space. The question is though, should enough stash space be allocated in the first place or is it fair to charge $ for it?

(I don't know much about server tech but not too long ago D2 team said that a reason they cant give more stash space is due to server lag/complications)

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jtggm1985 wrote:

You missed the point boem, as usual. Neither GGG's trading app nor any other is IN THE GAME. Therefore you, a player in said game, have only one IN-GAME way to list items for searching, and that's paid tabs. That gives those who have them an advantage over those who don't. That is pay to win by the accepted definition writ large. Prior to the premium tabs, everyone had to go out of game to actually list items, or spam their sales in trade chat. With premium tabs you no longer have to go out of game to list.

Your only proving my point about ignorance, trading apps allow you to select stash tabs and put buy out prices on them.
Every item put into them or in the reference location will be put up for sale for the dedicated price.

So no, you don't need to leave the game with trading apps to list items. Similar to the premium stash tabs you need to program them once for a price range and then your good to go.

Peace,

-Boem-

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ajo wrote:

But since you already bought some points, my pro tip is to unfortunally buy your stash tabs before you'll waste your them on any cosmetic. If you have enough points, I would buy all the special tabs and a few quad tabs.

to Slavpocalypse:

Every more or less 3 weeks are discounts. So you should be able to buy tabs at better price. Currency tab you should get imo from very beginning. "Upgrade to premium stash tab" is also worth to get from very start. Card tab, fragment tab, essence tab are imo next best to buy, delve tab is ok too and unique tab to make collection of uniqes - nice one which enhance your PoE experience. Map tab is essential for endgame, it will take time till you get there though.

Many people like quad tab, but I dont. Items there are too small, so first I would give a try if it suits you well.

gl and hf :)

Jesus christ. What has happened to the gaming industry over the last 2 decades......it actually makes me kind of sick. People bitch about EVERYTHING nowadays. Who cares if stash tabs are a convenience. Don't buy them. There is absolutely nothing in this game that you pay for to "win". Yes the cosmetics cost millions of dollars, but these dudes have to fund their game for us somehow dont they? And GGG is actually one of the few developers that is active on forums and listens to community feedback. Most people buy their shit because they want to. They choose to support these people making a game they actually enjoy and want to play. It HAS changed alot over the years, but they are STILL making content all the time, and people STILL bitch.......SMFH

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Slavpocalypse wrote:

Ya, to me, P2W are things like when D2 first came out with the RMAH and people were paying $200 for just a yellow item that had perfect stats and you could do that the second you made a new character.

WoW to me is similar whereas you can buy in-game gold to buy things off the AH (or legit farm for them) but ultimately it's still P2W. Although I'd say no amount of buying gear would let you survive in a mythic raid or not die in high ranked PvP, but MMO's are different than ARPG so I digress.

Stash space has always been a hot topic and people on the D2 forums have constantly said they would gladly pay $$$ for more space. The question is though, should enough stash space be allocated in the first place or is it fair to charge $ for it?

(I don't know much about server tech but not too long ago D2 team said that a reason they cant give more stash space is due to server lag/complications)

Yeah, that's what real pay to win is and why its "frowned upon" by the general gaming community.

Then you got folks in here who like to claim tabs are a win button or simply fall into p2win for being an improvement for monetary cost. All the stash space in the world isn't going to help a weak player beat Uber elder. In fact, I failed him plenty of times, which were not only expensive wastes, but also a product of me stubbornly wanting my first kill to be on a character severely underpowered for it.

And given the general nature of PoE, the only folks truly competing are the racers in the pursuit of 100 - unless you want to argue the whole market pvp thing, which while it does exist at some level is kinda silly.

I'd understand folks advocating accounts having one initial premium tab - but also understand that this isn't done because of how easily that would be abused by the RMT folks.

But tabs and fancy mtx don't make the player, working game knowledge does.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

I'd understand folks advocating accounts having one initial premium tab - but also understand that this isn't done because of how easily that would be abused by the RMT folks.

I wouldn't mind GGG giving two premium tabs to player accounts under the win conditions i outlined previously.

1) beating the full story line
2) reaching level 100

I think this would accomplish two things, firstly it would secure the fact that these are the objective "win conditions" GGG outlines within its PVE content.
Secondly i think it would prevent RMT or other hostile activity's towards the game.

The reason for the second statement follows the human nature sentiment that somebody with nothing to lose is willing to take far greater risks then somebody who has things to lose.

If an account achieved both stash tabs i think a person would be unlikely to put that account at risk.

On the other hand, if GGG were to do this we would have the same crowd as in this thread claiming P2W because you would be able to purchase these tabs with cash and they are tied to the win conditions.

I personally think they should ignore these people and still implement a system like i outlined because it would be beneficial to them and the game.
But there is no hiding that it would provide a direct line of critique to the people who enjoy this form of past-time.

Peace,

-Boem-