Can we stop pretending that Path of Exile is free to play?

"

ajo wrote:

You don't have multi lane highways where you live? Either that or you missed where I said that they have to use those lanes, but whatever as long as you get the point.

When you say that more tabs increase the micromanagement, I can't help to think that you are probably suffering from a form of OCD or have never bought any special tabs. A tip is to buy the map tab & currency tab at least.

That's the thing about multi-lane highways - if I don't like a lane I can merge into a different one, and so can everyone else.

That's why it doesn't work as an analogy - if a lane is restricted by construction, its basically restricted to everyone. Otherwise, everyone has the opportunity to use the 1,2,3,4 or 5th lane as applicable.

The thing about 4 tabs means just like old d2, you either run mules or get highly selective of what you pickup/store/sell.

I do have every special tab short of the unique one, which in turn opens up the other tabs for other things....

Plenty of the stuff in my standard stash has value, doesn't mean it would be worth selling. But if everyone played that way, no one would bother selling the common uniques only to complain about the game being pay to win.

EDIT - had to fix quote.

"

BangaKiltChoazz wrote:

Sounds like you need some ADD meds or some shit and maybe a better loot filter. And you get what the fuck he's trying to say, stop nitpicking.

Currency
Div Cards
Organs
Fossils and Resonators
Essences
Maps and Fragments
Armor and Weapons and jewelry
Blight Oils
Breachstones and splinters

You cant even stack most shit past 10 without specialized tabs and there's people talking shit like this lmao. RIP pop smoke tho

I'm well aware and have most of the special tabs - still means micromanagement.

The irony is you're making my point for me, all the different types of loot means there's plenty of sorting. When you lack storage space, you ignore the low value stuff and only bother with the much less common drops meaning you pick up less and spend less time sorting.

This league I made more in less time than I usually did because after spending extensive amounts of time sorting my standard stash I was able to streamline my play.

When you realize just how dramatic the meta dictates the market you end up saving a ton of time not hassling with stuff that may or may not sell. And the biggest gut punch was making more on natural drops than I did bothering to sell stuff. That's the difference efficiency makes, a lesson that legion taught those of us unwilling to accept it before.

32 pages and they are still going. Yikes... Just how entitled some people can be.

"

Aynix wrote:

32 pages and they are still going. Yikes... Just how entitled some people can be.

If you don't see it as a valid discussion, get out. You're not clever or edgy, and not contributing anything.

It's no secret that F2P games are finding sneakier and sneakier ways to psychologically "trick" people into buying things. Like casinos offering free food and drinks to people playing, except in the form of dangling things that aren't "required" but reduce the stress of playing.

I can say, personally, that I am the type of player that having MORE stash space is massively helpful, and part of what makes the game fun. I ENJOY picking up everything and sorting through it, seeing what combinations of stuff are worth it (at least when I first started and was still learning).

What I've learned from this whole thread, is that some people love that, and others literally see extra space as a distraction.

In that context, some of the players are unaffected by the cost of buying stash tabs, and other are. Still, no one BENEFITS from having to spend real money to stash space. I still think it should be something you can earn a few tabs of by PLAYING THE GAME.

If there's one other thing people have proven here, it's that they would happily buy MTX to support the company...so there's plenty of people who would put the money they've probably used on tabs towards cosmetics instead. That's not a loss for GGG.

But everything has balance. Everything requires a much harder look at profit margins than any of us forum trolls can possibly understand. I just REALLY hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be shocked if a few years down the road there were HUNDREDS of dollars worth of "questionable" paid items. Pets that pick up currency loot? That wouldn't technically affect anyone's power, but it would shift the haves and have-nots further apart in progression speed and enjoyability.

That said, I'm starting to think that maybe if the playerbase DID drop back down to 10k people, GGG would be fine with it as long as those are all the whales.

The blind defenders of the "grey area" elements of this game seem like they'd suck down a hot turd out of any GGG employee's behind just for the pleasure of doing so. Maybe when those people are all that's left, everyone will finally be happy.

So I joined PoE again yesterday. I am actual thinking to give GGG some money ($60) because in my eyes it is worth. I payed for the whole Diablo 3 thing (before Necromancer) around 60-80$ and spent maybe 40 hours. Maybe a bit more. I played it back in 2015 where it was okay in its current state. But I felt cheated on my money kinda.

Now, in PoE, it is for me like I cheated the Devs. I finished the main story line after over 70h (maybe slow, but I died a lot and didnt want to rush the story). Even your big "minus" that you have to buy stash tabs. I didn't need more than 4. Okay 1 is full with scrolls and some currency but the other are quiet empty because I trade and sell all the stuff I dont need.

And I guess if you pay one time around 30-60$ it should be worth its money. I mean we got 6 acts in one update. All ~3 months an entire new feature with new mechanics for FREE. They dont even ask us to pay 1$. There is just in the intro a little window what says "Here is our shop". Thats it.

And it is always up to you how much money & time you spend into a game. If you love it by heart you will support it anyway I guess.

Now I go back and think about which supporter pack I should buy, they are all great and epic.

The very pretext of this thread makes any real discussion hard.

Free to play is in essence the concept that there is no fee to access the game.

Whether you like the implementation of the model or not, it still uses that model. Starting the discussion pretending that free to play is equal to free to play without feeling any need to pay more to get a better experience is dishonest. You can't just make terms mean what you want them to mean for your purpose.

Pay to win is a bit harder to define, but as other people point out you can't pay your way to continuous power growth. So calling it pay to win is not really obviously justified. You can argue that a minor investment in expanding your stash features can provide some tangible benefits in terms of in game power, but it is a far cut from clear cut pay to win features where you can bypass the in game mechanics to obtain game play items by spending real life money.
Someone else argued that you might as well make it fully P2W because it already is, which is just a stupid claim. I couldn't continue playing the game for long if actual game play items went purchasable (like exp boosts, increased IIR/IIQ etc. or the loot collector bots someone mentioned) as it would kill my drive to do stuff. Ridiculously priced cosmetics don't do that, even though I think it's detrimental to gameplay. (Resources are being dedicated to generate these purchasable items, while depriving something potentially obtainable through gameplay).
Stash upgrades only provides limited benefits up to a ceiling that's not above normal game prices. The only reason I've used close to 100$ on the game (since 2015) is that I'm a borderline compulsive looter/collector playing SSF (I generally end leagues with several currencies overflowing in the currency stash, currently at 8.5k wisdom scrolls fx).

I would prefer the game to be based on a different financial model, but I can understand why it isn't, I believe F2P is just more effective at generating revenue for this type of game (F2P is more effective at attracting new players and MTX makes a lot of people more likely to spend larger total amount of money compared to single purchases).

Mainly I want to argue that if you want to discuss issues, be direct and stop using buzz words to make your point.

Discussing the financial model is fine, it's not perfect and I probably would agree on some points. But it really grinds my gears, no pun intended, that the conversation always has to start on some more or less ridiculous F2P argument. From my perspective stash tabs are not the worst baseline to expect to get some revenue.
I do believe you get a single premium tab now, so you can somewhat comfortably try the full game for some time before you invest any money. And a 20-30$ investment would allow you to reasonably play without being a hardcore minimalist.

Where my issues start are the price tag on the cosmetic mtx and the amount of money you are invited to spend through supporter packs, it undoubtedly leads some people to overspend and probably is my largest moral issue with PoE's model.

"

q7bee wrote:

The very pretext of this thread makes any real discussion hard.

Free to play is in essence the concept that there is no fee to access the game.

What I've been saying all along. People have no idea what "free to play" means, and are only debating from their own, 'ethical', subjective definition of what "free to play" should be. As long as you can access everything the game has to offer without paying, the game is "free to play". Even if the game had 29846 "pay to win" elements, it would still be "free to play".

Now, whether or not Path of Exile is "pay to win" is another debate.

"

q7bee wrote:

The very pretext of this thread makes any real discussion hard.

Free to play is in essence the concept that there is no fee to access the game.

Whether you like the implementation of the model or not, it still uses that model. Starting the discussion pretending that free to play is equal to free to play without feeling any need to pay more to get a better experience is dishonest. You can't just make terms mean what you want them to mean for your purpose.

If a game is p2w, it invalidates any benefits you're supposed to be getting from a f2p game. Which is why arguing that a game can be both is a dead end argument, even if it's true.

poe is free to play for like first couple hours ( bevor mapping ) or completly free as a SSF sine you dont have to pick up everything jsut want you need etc..


but if you wanna enjoy PoE to the fullest, than you need atleast map tab / currency / 3-4 premium tabs everything after thath is not necessary

I think that you have to make your own definition of F2P.

PoE is (for me) pay for convenience. It is for me far away from P2W, maybe because I played games where you have really to pay to get better equipment and stats. PoE just simply doesn't have it. Of course the skins are quiet expensive, but I would be more open for some optional skins than being forced to pay for stuff that I REALLY need in the game to come along.