Can we stop pretending that Path of Exile is free to play?

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ajo wrote:

I think we should also bring in GGG's own definition of pay-to-win. Judging by the rules set by GGG for private league, any aid that you could pay for would be pay-to-win even though you segregate yourself from all other players in a new environment with your own rules and goals. So in GGG's own perspective, even SSF would need to follow these rules as it's basically a one man private league.

And Boem, the win and goal defense argument is getting so ridiculous that I'm just going to sink down to your level and agree that it's pay-to-win because you need to pay for the electricity, internet and a computer. Hopefully this is enough to advance past the circular misinterpreting of terms and focus on the actual subject instead.

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Fantazmagore wrote:

....

This just raises more questions. What have you won and where does it hurt?

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Rexeos wrote:

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Fantazmagore wrote:

....

This just raises more questions. What have you won and where does it hurt?

Time.

Try out this analogy: imagine that your kids have no telephone. You can say they are ok, but in fact they are in hard disadvantage and they will miss a lot in life.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Rexeos wrote:

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Fantazmagore wrote:

....

This just raises more questions. What have you won and where does it hurt?

Time.

Try out this analogy: imagine that your kids have no telephone. You can say they are ok, but in fact they are in hard disadvantage and they will miss a lot in life.

Not to get off track, but you do realize cell phones have only existed for a small fraction of human history yes?

I think our ancestors(and contemporaries) would be fine without TikTok.

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ajo wrote:

I view it as two drivers on the same claimed to be balanced highway. There are multiple lanes on this highway but the driver who doesn't pay extra will have to drive on the crappier lanes that has a bunch of potholes, speed bumps and crosswalks. The VIP spender however can just enjoy smoother ride without worrying so much about the road itself.
Will both drivers eventually get from A to B? Probably.

And to translate this into poe: Take an average new player and clone him. Give one on them the special tabs and some premium tabs, and give the other one a hat and purple footprints. Now after X amount of hours, see who has advanced the most in terms of progression and wealth. Hint: It's not the guy with the hat and footprints.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

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ajo wrote:

I view it as two drivers on the same claimed to be balanced highway. There are multiple lanes on this highway but the driver who doesn't pay extra will have to drive on the crappier lanes that has a bunch of potholes, speed bumps and crosswalks. The VIP spender however can just enjoy smoother ride without worrying so much about the road itself.
Will both drivers eventually get from A to B? Probably.

And to translate this into poe: Take an average new player and clone him. Give one on them the special tabs and some premium tabs, and give the other one a hat and purple footprints. Now after X amount of hours, see who has advanced the most in terms of progression and wealth. Hint: It's not the guy with the hat and footprints.

That really doesn't make sense as an analogy - if you're on the same highway, you are literally driving on the same lanes.

Now, if you were to say folks who use toll roads for long trips paying extra to avoid heavy congestion sure - the destination is the same, but spending extra tends to improve the journey.

And as for taking the same player and cloning him - there's no guarantee of the result. If anything, buying additional storage often leads to hoarding of items not worth holding onto and plenty not even worth picking up to begin with.

I'm still cleaning out my standard stash and still keep things in remove only tabs that I KNOW I will never put to use but keep as a reminder of things I used to waste my time on.

Knowing my own personal experience - I would actually expect the guy not running with extra tabs to progress further - the time I've wasted in micromanaging my stashes would have been better spent generating new drops and running more efficiently.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

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ajo wrote:

I view it as two drivers on the same claimed to be balanced highway. There are multiple lanes on this highway but the driver who doesn't pay extra will have to drive on the crappier lanes that has a bunch of potholes, speed bumps and crosswalks. The VIP spender however can just enjoy smoother ride without worrying so much about the road itself.
Will both drivers eventually get from A to B? Probably.

And to translate this into poe: Take an average new player and clone him. Give one on them the special tabs and some premium tabs, and give the other one a hat and purple footprints. Now after X amount of hours, see who has advanced the most in terms of progression and wealth. Hint: It's not the guy with the hat and footprints.

That really doesn't make sense as an analogy - if you're on the same highway, you are literally driving on the same lanes.

Now, if you were to say folks who use toll roads for long trips paying extra to avoid heavy congestion sure - the destination is the same, but spending extra tends to improve the journey.

And as for taking the same player and cloning him - there's no guarantee of the result. If anything, buying additional storage often leads to hoarding of items not worth holding onto and plenty not even worth picking up to begin with.

I'm still cleaning out my standard stash and still keep things in remove only tabs that I KNOW I will never put to use but keep as a reminder of things I used to waste my time on.

Knowing my own personal experience - I would actually expect the guy not running with extra tabs to progress further - the time I've wasted in micromanaging my stashes would have been better spent generating new drops and running more efficiently.

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Rexeos wrote:

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de99ial wrote:

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Rexeos wrote:

PoE from own experience is pay2win game.

What have you won?

"Pay-to-win
In some games, players who are willing to pay for special items, downloadable content, or to skip cooldown timers may be able to gain an advantage over those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing or waiting in order to unlock said items. In general a game is considered pay-to-win when a player can gain any gameplay advantage over his non-paying peers, which is shown in games such as FIFA. Such games are called "pay-to-win" by critics.

A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is for payments to only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay.[37] For example, games—such as Dota 2 and StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty—only allow the purchase of cosmetic items, meaning that a "free-to-play player" will be on the same level as a player who has spent money on the game. Others suggest finding a balance between a game that encourages players to pay for extra content that enhances the game without making the free version feel limited by comparison.[38] This theory is that players who do not pay for items would still increase awareness of it through word of mouth marketing, which ultimately benefits the game indirectly."