A Community Almost Completely Devoid of Sympathy and Empathy

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Boem wrote:

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HwtChirino wrote:

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Boem wrote:

And you just validated his point, so who is winning exactly?

Also pointing out people have different tolerance levels isn't "moral relativism", it's the exact opposite since it aknowledges the inherent differences between people and how they will cope with situations.
At least be conceptually honest when making a point, cheers.

Peace,

-Boem-

In what way did I validate his point? That "I don't have the right not be criticized?" or that my "own concerns" have already been addressed numerous times?

And this isn't about winning.

What you are describing is different than moral relativism. What he said was that some people interpret the same comment as an attack, whereas others do not. "Tolerance" would mean that both interpret a comment as an attack, but that two people would feel the attack's force at differing levels.


What's your problem?

on the first question, both.

Joining a forum(a public place for discourse) opens one up to different views and as such to criticism of your own viewpoint.
And yes, your observation is
1) poorly formed, since it presents itself without nuance and in a dichotomy
2) already presented to these forum boards in that poor formulation multiple times.

On the second question,

You said he was using moral relativism, i'm simply stating he is not.

Your example of tolerance is also pretty poor since it doesn't even demonstrate the option to "outgrow pain", you present it as if harm is always done.(so a very narrow spectrum representation of reality)
For example, people have different tolerance levels of heights and it is perfectly reasonable to state that one tolerance level induces joy while the other induces fear.(fear of height vs people that love sky-diving etc)

So it is perfectly reasonable for somebody to be "attacked" on a forum, but not experience any harm as a result because of his tolerance level.
It is also perfectly reasonable for such a person to post a comment to a person with a lower tolerance level and this next individual experiences it as an attack since his tolerance treshhold is lower in comparison.

That's not to a say a medium treshhold should not be established for all to follow, which there is, read the forum guide-lines.
However poorly formulated they are currently they are still the medium baseline of insults and speach tolerated for all participants.

Peace,

-Boem-

Your posts are ridiculous. Your argument is unintelligible and invalid as a result. Not because I lack the intellect to understand you, but because your arguments are, as you put it, "pretty poor".

More importantly, it is amazing to me that your intent is to disprove everything I've said.

You argue that my unwillingness to understand the mindset of a person attempting to convey meaningful advice or feedback because their words are muddied in blatant rudeness and vulgarity, that this ought to be considered a lack of empathy. Let me clarify something that should be so basic: that is not empathy. Empathy is synonymous with compassion. But you think it to be feeling the same way someone feels. No, it is not wrong for me not to feel the same way as a f'king child rapist. Crazy example? Yeah, who cares? It's not wrong for me not to feel the same way as a evil-doer.

You find it ironic? Who cares, dude?

What is this thread about? Is it about you attempting to refute me? No. It's not about what you perceive to be cleverly contrived counter-arguments against me. So, stop it. It's not about you.

It's about what happens on these forums and in this community. If you refuse to acknowledge this phenomenon, or rather insist on describing it differently, then fine. Good job, Boem, Mr. pseudo-Peace. You've accomplished that. But if you want more from me? No, I'm not into playing your silly games.

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HwtChirino wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I found this thread mildly amusuing.

The notion that those who are providing criticism, should be precluded from recieving the same (in any form), is a type of egocentric logic I have trouble understanding, and can do little else but smile.

In fact I would say that is the entire point of a "forum" in any sense. Literally a discussion in which many points are discussed and/or debated.

Otherwise what we would have is a mere collection of statements. How droll.

I never argued what you are describing.


It's as if you all are unable to comprehend my original point.

You are the second person to turn our attention to the silly argument: "No one should be excluded from criticism."

What is my argument? Not that one, and it never was.

My argument is beyond simple: in fact, it is stated in my title. That's it.

I then cited examples.

All of this followed by not one person responding in agreement but speaking as if I am a fool to describe the phenomenon entitled in this thread.

You found this thread mildly amusing? How wonderful for you. Whereas I find it dumbfounding.

No you didnt.

What you are trying to do is validate, equate, justify, or explain a criticism that isnt sourced from yourself, with a set of standards from who knows where.

That's ridiculous.

I can believe your feedback and criticism on PoE development to be trash, just as easily as you can say "git gud" is also trash opinion in response.

I dont know how you somehow came to the impression that opinions and criticisms must meet some sort of agreed upon standard when none exists. The mere notion it exists is nothing but irony in regards to your OP.

Someone can say "Sirus is too hard", and someone else can say "git gud".

In theory both are legitimate, and at the same time both might be poor in terms of context. It doesnt mean either is more right or more wrong. (And even if they were, according to whom?)

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HwtChirino wrote:

Your posts are ridiculous. Your argument is unintelligible and invalid as a result. Not because I lack the intellect to understand you, but because your arguments are, as you put it, "pretty poor".

More importantly, it is amazing to me that your intent is to disprove everything I've said.

You argue that my unwillingness to understand the mindset of a person attempting to convey meaningful advice or feedback because their words are muddied in blatant rudeness and vulgarity, that this ought to be considered a lack of empathy. Let me clarify something that should be so basic: that is not empathy. Empathy is synonymous with compassion. But you think it to be feeling the same way someone feels. No, it is not wrong for me not to feel the same way as a f'king child rapist. Crazy example? Yeah, who cares? It's not wrong for me not to feel the same way as a evil-doer.

You find it ironic? Who cares, dude?

What is this thread about? Is it about you attempting to refute me? No. It's not about what you perceive to be cleverly contrived counter-arguments against me. So, stop it. It's not about you.

It's about what happens on these forums and in this community. If you refuse to acknowledge this phenomenon, or rather insist on describing it differently, then fine. Good job, Boem, Mr. pseudo-Peace. You've accomplished that. But if you want more from me? No, I'm not into playing your silly games.

Well, welcome to the club. We all are the same people without sympathy, as you just showed.
It's ironic, talk about lack of sympathy and manage to become the same as he does not like shortly after starting.

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Actkqk wrote:

Op, anything you want to claim is not something new. I am not one of the oldest but 6 years ago these same topics were seen in the forum. "The game is dead" is one of the most recurring themes along with the scammers. It is nothing new and the old forum guys get tired of seeing the same thing over and over again...

By the way, your topic is not new either.

I know it's not new. This isn't some revelation.

I refuse to let the topic die, which is why this isn't the first time I've posted a thread about this topic. It's a problem, and apparently, based on what you've said, I am not the only one who thinks so.

So if opponents of this topic to die, I won't let it. Opponents don't want to acknowledge the phenomenon encapsulated in the title of this thread as a problematic aspect of this community? I suspect it is a result of depravity and a calloused nature.

I think ppl are just burned out on the constant whining, and also it's human nature to not have much empathy for others.

Remember when you complain about something, it's a lot easier to swallow if you propose a fix, even if the fix is impossible, at least it shows you're open to solving problems rather than begging for sympathy.

That's what differentiates a "legit beef" from mere whining. Like okay, we get it, Sirius is a bitch, now how would you fix it? Lab sucks and is boring and unrewarding, how would you go about fixing ascendancy and skill checks?

On the flip side, shouting people down with "I got mine, fuck you" and "sucks to be you" and "git gud" are just as bad. Stirring shit just to stir shit.

If you can't actually be bothered to offer helpful suggestions, or can only respond with "helpful" suggestions like go eat a bag of Stacked Decks, maybe just navigate quietly out of the thread and find something else to do.

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HwtChirino wrote:

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Boem wrote:

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HwtChirino wrote:

I'm not going to provide a commentary on each of these quotes, but there should be no need for me to explain why they are exactly the problematic behaviors I have described earlier.

All i get from your post is that

1) you have a problem with responsibility
2) you come from a culture devoid of irrony and sarcasm

So yeah, the burden is on you to disprove those claims if you want people to see how those post's are "toxic" and not just a different viewpoint of affairs.

Peace,

-Boem-

If you think the comments I provided are not problematic, it is a waste of my time to discuss anything with you. In what world do you live in, where such statements are considered civil discourse? No, I don't believe any such community should be considered a place of sympathy and empathy, of humanity.

Also, you proclaim peace in all of your posts. Why?

You seem to be doing nothing but arguing against my original post and subsequent replies, seemingly attempting to discredit everything I've argued.

Peace? Yeah, sure, bud.

I don't always share the same viewpoint as Boem but even when there's a difference of opinion it's been pretty consistent that he still brought up points to consider.

OP, you make the blanket statement that the community is "bad" but conveniently forget all the good that kept you playing. Essentially, it's like me insulting everyone because I fell for a scam or everyone is trying to cheat you.

Have players tried to scam me? Sure. But I've made countless trades without an issue despite treating every trade as another chance for someone to try and cheat me.

Have I traded with rude or obnoxious players? Totally, but in the end it's a matter of item value versus irritation. If someone decides to act up over a handful of chaos or less, I'll refuse the trade in response. If the item is hard to acquire, I may very well stomach it just to get it over with.

Bottom line, just because I've had bad experiences, I don't proclaim or address the community based only on the worst experiences. In fact, one of my best memories was buying up fragments to fight uber elder and the player selling asked what I was needing so many for. I told him I was struggling to beat him and in turn he gave me more than I paid for. It was near end of the league, and while that may have factored into his/her generosity - it was still more generous than I would have been (I was poorer in game then).

The vast majority of my experiences are not people trying to scam me nor are they of people being generous, but simply people fulfilling expectations. That applies to the forums just as well.

EDIT - P.S. This thread and mindset reminded me of the folks that manage to rage at me when playing LoL TFT. Even in a mode that mundane there are people who still find it impossible to check the attitude and scream and yell when most of the time the only words typed if any are gg. There are always gonna be assholes, but hell you dunno, maybe their fiance left or died or they lost some loved one.

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HwtChirino wrote:

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Actkqk wrote:

Op, anything you want to claim is not something new. I am not one of the oldest but 6 years ago these same topics were seen in the forum. "The game is dead" is one of the most recurring themes along with the scammers. It is nothing new and the old forum guys get tired of seeing the same thing over and over again...

By the way, your topic is not new either.

I know it's not new. This isn't some revelation.

I refuse to let the topic die, which is why this isn't the first time I've posted a thread about this topic. It's a problem, and apparently, based on what you've said, I am not the only one who thinks so.

So if opponents of this topic to die, I won't let it. Opponents don't want to acknowledge the phenomenon encapsulated in the title of this thread as a problematic aspect of this community? I suspect it is a result of depravity and a calloused nature.

Phenomenon? What?... This is like others forums, nice people, troll people, ugly people. All united debating things, like every other forum. Sometimes you got good topics, sometimes bad topics. It's "human nature" and is not a rare "phenomenon".

Honestly OP it's the internet, what do you expect? If you start your browser you should be prepared to get flamed, insulted belittled or whatever. It's not nice but it's how humanity works. If you're not close enough to someone to punch him in the face when he says something stupid then he has no reason to be civilized or respectful so he won't.

It's also not like only the guys who want to change something get attacked. If you say you like the game as it is you will get flamed just as much.

You can call it cynical but after 20 years on the internet my experience does not allow for any other conclusion. Fighting against it is like trying to prevent the Sun from going down, you waste your time.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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HwtChirino wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I found this thread mildly amusuing.

The notion that those who are providing criticism, should be precluded from recieving the same (in any form), is a type of egocentric logic I have trouble understanding, and can do little else but smile.

In fact I would say that is the entire point of a "forum" in any sense. Literally a discussion in which many points are discussed and/or debated.

Otherwise what we would have is a mere collection of statements. How droll.

I never argued what you are describing.


It's as if you all are unable to comprehend my original point.

You are the second person to turn our attention to the silly argument: "No one should be excluded from criticism."

What is my argument? Not that one, and it never was.

My argument is beyond simple: in fact, it is stated in my title. That's it.

I then cited examples.

All of this followed by not one person responding in agreement but speaking as if I am a fool to describe the phenomenon entitled in this thread.

You found this thread mildly amusing? How wonderful for you. Whereas I find it dumbfounding.

No you didnt.

What you are trying to do is validate, equate, justify, or explain a criticism that isnt sourced from yourself, with a set of standards from who knows where.

That's ridiculous.

I can believe your feedback and criticism on PoE development to be trash, just as easily as you can say "git gud" is also trash opinion in response.

I dont know how you somehow came to the impression that opinions and criticisms must meet some sort of agreed upon standard when none exists. The mere notion it exists is nothing but irony in regards to your OP.

Someone can say "Sirus is too hard", and someone else can say "git gud".

In theory both are legitimate, and at the same time both might be poor in terms of context. It doesnt mean either is more right or more wrong. (And even if they were, according to whom?)

Oh my goodness... What are you talking about? I feel like I'm speaking Chinese.

"According to whom"? Who's moral authority do you accept? Your own?

Fine then, I find it equally valid for me to ask you all the same thing: According to whom do the comments I cited in my OP represent sympathy and empathy? According to whom does the majority of the community possess sympathy and empathy (or, compassion)? Tell me, according to whom?


But again, that is not the point of my thread? For some reason, you and others want to derail it's objective. So, you and others think there is no problem within this community? You think that compassionate and loving (in friendly way) players comprise the majority base population of this game? I am arguing the opposite. Whether I've managed to prove that is another thing. But if none of you will admit that I am right, then I have nothing left to say to you.

Do you think that because I am unwilling to demonstrate a kind tone in my rhetoric that it somehow discredits my thread? I don't give a crap what you think about my rhetoric. Whether or not you acknowledge a toxic community, that's what I care about.

The way you guys have responded to me, I consider most of you assh0les, straight up. Maybe you see me the same. I don't care, just as you don't care.

See? Fkin toxic community.

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HwtChirino wrote:

Your posts are ridiculous. Your argument is unintelligible and invalid as a result. Not because I lack the intellect to understand you, but because your arguments are, as you put it, "pretty poor".

More importantly, it is amazing to me that your intent is to disprove everything I've said.

You argue that my unwillingness to understand the mindset of a person attempting to convey meaningful advice or feedback because their words are muddied in blatant rudeness and vulgarity, that this ought to be considered a lack of empathy. Let me clarify something that should be so basic: that is not empathy. Empathy is synonymous with compassion. But you think it to be feeling the same way someone feels. No, it is not wrong for me not to feel the same way as a f'king child rapist. Crazy example? Yeah, who cares? It's not wrong for me not to feel the same way as a evil-doer.

You find it ironic? Who cares, dude?

What is this thread about? Is it about you attempting to refute me? No. It's not about what you perceive to be cleverly contrived counter-arguments against me. So, stop it. It's not about you.

It's about what happens on these forums and in this community. If you refuse to acknowledge this phenomenon, or rather insist on describing it differently, then fine. Good job, Boem, Mr. pseudo-Peace. You've accomplished that. But if you want more from me? No, I'm not into playing your silly games.

Stop verbally attacking me sir.
/s

Also empathy is not synonymous with compassion, get a new teacher if this is what your being taught.

Peace,

-Boem-