More defenses in DualWielding

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smtad wrote:
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Dr1MaR wrote:
Did you even play gladiator? I have a toon on hc facetanked literally everything including guardians

Got one-shot many times with 83% attack/spell block gladiator. Can gladiator facetank anything? The answer is NO.

You mean, you got one shot while having a defense layer that does literally nothing against one shots ?

HHMMMMMMM


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smtad wrote:
You can't even facetank trash mobs. Because some mobs' corpse detonation can't be blocked. You probably be killed in 0.1 sec if you just stand on a pack of corpses and some mobs' detonate them.

We are talking about a melee oriented ascendancy that literally has a keystone to take care of corpses disposal ...


I don't how you've built your gladiator(s), but likely not properly given what you just said.

SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Last edited by Fruz on Nov 9, 2019, 8:23:36 PM
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If anything DW defenses should be nerfed. No more block chance while dual-wielding!


^This

DW is already WAY TOO STRONG. If anything Sword + Shield could use some more offensive love.
Fruz, you realize you cant get all the ascendancy right ?
If you decide to go for GV, you are not going to take VR and in that case your block chance will be way lower.

One hand + shield as a whole need some offensive buff, or buff the shields armor and other stats, cause 1,5 for best shield is pretty much nothing.
Or just make their shield passive better.

Also with Dual Wield you can make Gladiator, Champion, probably the 3 Marauder Ascendancy, while one hand and a shield is really viable in Gladiator.
Last edited by lordlosh on Nov 10, 2019, 3:51:28 AM
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lordlosh wrote:
Fruz, you realize you cant get all the ascendancy right ?
If you decide to go for GV, you are not going to take VR and in that case your block chance will be way lower.


If you have another thing to clear packs properly and fast, then you might not need Gratuitosu Violence, but if you don't .... then you can pretty much focus on damage and block chance ( + buffer and some extra bits of mitigation layers here and there ) and I would personally skip Challenger.

If you want to invest into clearing or are using a skill that has good coverage to beginwith though, Arena Challenger is likely better.
You could just use Haemophillia too, that's another option.

All of this in the case of a block oriented build obviously.


In either case, if you don't have anything to take care of corpses ... your build is missing something.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Last edited by Fruz on Nov 10, 2019, 4:07:27 AM
The problem for Gladiator is that they changed the position of GV and Blood in the Eyes.
In that way you can`t take Violent Retalation, which is great for one hand and a shield.

OutMatch and Outlast on the same time doesnt work with Shield, which is pretty stupid. I mean Endurance Charges part, that you get from offhand.
They should have fixed that long ago.
Tho this is probably the worst passive in the Gladiator anyway.

Just like you said Haemophilia is a good option, but then you sacrifice a big hp number, a big dmg number from a solid rare gloves for example.
For exampe such ones:
20% melee damage from Spiked Gloves mod
500+armor
16% attack speed
89life
And of course 2 big resists.

But i get your point.
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Fruz wrote:

You mean, you got one shot while having a defense layer that does literally nothing against one shots ?
HHMMMMMMM
We are talking about a melee oriented ascendancy that literally has a keystone to take care of corpses disposal ...
I don't how you've built your gladiator(s), but likely not properly given what you just said.

No, I just said you can't facetank anything with gladiator. Even you have 83% block, you still have 17% to be one-shot.

And you even can't facetank trash mobs. Because some mob's corpse detonations can't be blocked.
Last edited by smtad on Nov 10, 2019, 8:16:47 AM
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Fruz wrote:

In either case, if you don't have anything to take care of corpses ... your build is missing something.

I don't know how to 100% take care of corpses. It is a heavy investment. There must be some trash mobs dying before you inflict bleed or frozen or whatsoever on them. And you probably be killed in 0.1sec by corpses detonations on their bodies, especially in a map with some dangerous mod such as -#% elem max resist.
Last edited by smtad on Nov 10, 2019, 8:27:50 AM
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smtad wrote:
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Fruz wrote:

You mean, you got one shot while having a defense layer that does literally nothing against one shots ?
HHMMMMMMM
We are talking about a melee oriented ascendancy that literally has a keystone to take care of corpses disposal ...
I don't how you've built your gladiator(s), but likely not properly given what you just said.

No, I just said you can't facetank anything with gladiator. Even you have 83% block, you still have 17% to be one-shot.

And you even can't facetank trash mobs. Because some mob's corpse detonations can't be blocked.

And I am telling you that if you get one shot, it has absolutely nothing to do with your block chance but your character is likely missing something else.

It's like if I would say hey, I have 80& all elemental resistances but I still get killed by chaos damage !!
Well ... yeah .... obviously


Gladiator is one of the few choices picked by people to delve deep in HC (2*600+ Gladiator in Blight HC atm, many more guardian or Juggs but we know the reason for that ...)
They haven't gotten one shot.
They haven't gotten killed by corpse explosions, and yet Delve is the place where you have the most corpse explosions, and 600 depth Delve means that shit hits HARD.

So yeah, obviously block does not protect you from one shot, building a character with enough buffer + mitigation + block will.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Hi there
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Fruz wrote:
buffer + mitigation + block will

will not...

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smtad wrote:
No, I just said you can't facetank anything with gladiator. Even you have 83% block, you still have 17% to be one-shot

- Absolutely untrue, there is additional throws to many aspects of hits etc.
I don't know if dual wielding absolutely needs improvement of defences. I calculated approximately that about 5 (12% x 5 - in real I check is 3 points calculation here are not complete) minor defence points on passive tree will recompensate no shield. Calcultions:
If flat defence is 3000(shield 500) and with 400% increased defense will have 12000. Without shield is 2500 x 400% = 10000. To achieve 12000, 12000 / 2500 = 480% so there is more about 80% (more as 5, 80/12~7, like as I write before only 3 should recompensate, about 36% increase at all - calculations here are not complete I check this in game I dont know all calculations).
points increasing defences are more worth on high levels, more flat defenses from equipment more value from 3 points increasing defence. Therefore We can conclude dual wielding is more worth on high levels with point of view at defence.
Look Friends I don't know if dual wielding need some buffs to defences. This game is made so perfect that I'm not sure. I only made some supposition, after I sow buffs in passive tree to block chance when shield is equipped or to block while DW, only to block again... Maybe DW is too strong, hard to say, and thanks for yours answers and conclusions.
lordlosh it is sad You refuse to play, but I have proposition to You lets play together on HC in party, You will see that I'm really immune to one shot, even on standard no problem.
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Last edited by koszmarnica on Nov 10, 2019, 5:05:36 PM
koszmarnica, waiting to see what 4.0 will have to offer and then will decide if i will come back to POE or will fully switch to Diablo 4 when its comes out. Until then ESO is my game.
Right now i cant stand the power creep of this game.

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