+1 Spectre Body Armour and the Midnight Bargain - My issues with the changes

Don't worry about it. Summoners are going to be nerfed to death in a couple months and everyone who hasn't jumped to the next meta bandwagon will be scrambling to try and get the +1 spectre chest armor out of necessity rather than to further trivialize the Shaper.

To be honest, this is why I'd just stick to skeletons as main DPS. Spectres require either otherwise bad uniques (Midnight Bargain's life reserve) or very rare mods to get off the ground. Meanwhile, you just need to stack minion movement speed, attack/cast speed, and damage across multiple non-unique items to make skeletons good.

If you need another spectre now there is a problem. I have 5. They steamroll literally everything.

I usually play summoner, not always, usually spectre, not always. Game is too easy now.

I have crappy equipment and even so .. they insta kill everything.

"

kolyaboo wrote:

If you need another spectre now there is a problem. I have 5. They steamroll literally everything.

I usually play summoner, not always, usually spectre, not always. Game is too easy now.

I have crappy equipment and even so .. they insta kill everything.

I'm not asking for another spectre here, I'm saying that I've got 6 spectres with a 60% life reservation as the cost for that +2 over 4.

Any other spectre build with a minimal endgame investment can reach 5 now without any downsides other than a bit of RNG on the body armour.

I'm calling for either a NERF to that armour (30% life reserved added to the +1 spectre modifier) or its removal from the game entirely.

I've fought for this chest piece to be more obtainable quite a lot but that was before this patch came to be and they included the 3rd and 4th spectres into the GEM at the mere cost of either 4 ascendancy points or a 21 raise spectre gem.

Edit: I don't really like that this would hurt peoples builds now but if you consider the cost of what im sacrificing for my 5th and 6th spectre can anyone say its fair?

Sure someone could say the midnight bargains were buffed and they sure were because if they had not been buffed they would literally be useless garbage now.. and compared to some spectre setups with 5 spectre they literally are useless garbage especially if you can reach level 34 on the gem you can have 6 spectres with almost zero downsides.

you gotta be kidding.

Considering that I never even bothered to pick up the div cards leading to Midnight Bargain before this league, I'd say buffing them was a good thing that needed to happen.

I don't play summoners because I always get bored, so I know I'm not the person to ask about the rarity/strength value of +1 chests though. I will say that it's weird for the mod to be as rare as it is, when the closest analogue for build-enabling power in a single mod is the extra totem on a Shaper shield which is super common. I think it takes me around 10 alts to hit whenever I'm crafting a totem shield, and it doesn't even take a high item level. I think it's only 70?

I don't know if the spectre mod needs to be more common or the totem mod more rare, but considering how comparable they are in power I think they should at least be more similar to each other than they are right now.

"

robmafia wrote:

you gotta be kidding.

Please elaborate and likely not kidding.

"

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

Considering that I never even bothered to pick up the div cards leading to Midnight Bargain before this league, I'd say buffing them was a good thing that needed to happen.

I don't play summoners because I always get bored, so I know I'm not the person to ask about the rarity/strength value of +1 chests though. I will say that it's weird for the mod to be as rare as it is, when the closest analogue for build-enabling power in a single mod is the extra totem on a Shaper shield which is super common. I think it takes me around 10 alts to hit whenever I'm crafting a totem shield, and it doesn't even take a high item level. I think it's only 70?

I don't know if the spectre mod needs to be more common or the totem mod more rare, but considering how comparable they are in power I think they should at least be more similar to each other than they are right now.

Well the +1 chest before this patch simply gave an option endgame to surpass the vis mortis and its +1 to maximum spectres on ES builds but also enabled other builds like Life/evasion to obtain favorable bases for those setups..

Now the +1 spectre max from both the boots and the body have been included in the gem at level 21 well as an additional 5th spectre at level 34 (including the skill tree node)

If you equip the +1 spectre delve armour you can now achieve 6 spectres without ever touching a midnight bargain and technically with the right equipment on a 4link you can have 8 spectres. (while using 2 midnight bargains)

Seeing as the spectre from the body was included in the gem at level 21 and even more so an additional +1 was added at level 34 thats why this is frustrating me personally.

I'm not sure what GGG was thinking here.. but basically you can use a Pledge of Hands which is a 7link and have 5 spectres.. imagine having two 6links at 6 spectres while someone using 2 midnight bargains forced into a 60% life reservation that is not possible to mitigate in any way tops out at 6 spectres as well.
^i will note that as far as the math i have done says it is not possible to slot raise spectre in a chest/weapon to achieve 6 spectres while using a 2handed weapon but 5 is extremely easy.

Pledge of hands for example can double if not triple the dps output by having two spell echoes and still have a 6link chest to have some pretty stronk zombies/whatever you want.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Seeing as the spectre from the body was included in the gem at level 21

umm...

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

and even more so an additional +1 was added at level 34 thats why this is frustrating me personally.

...what?

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I'm not sure what GGG was thinking here.. but basically you can use a Pledge of Hands which is a 7link and have 5 spectres.. imagine having two 6links at 6 spectres while someone using 2 midnight bargains forced into a 60% life reservation that is not possible to mitigate in any way tops out at 6 spectres as well.

...wtf?

1. midnight ALSO provides +1 zombie and +1 skel, so it's OBVIOUSLY does more than just 1 spectre.

2. i have no idea what you think your point is
3. you JUST complained (a lot) about the inverse in the thread i linked
4. wants power creep. gets power creep. complains that with the way the power creep implemented, player isn't more special than other summoners
5. then just use a pledge and not have a shield/2 wands. and?

"

robmafia wrote:

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Seeing as the spectre from the body was included in the gem at level 21

umm...

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

and even more so an additional +1 was added at level 34 thats why this is frustrating me personally.

...what?

at levels 11 and 21 you gain back the two +1 to maximum spectres lost in the update which removed it from the Vis Mortis and Bones of ullr

"

robmafia wrote:

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I'm not sure what GGG was thinking here.. but basically you can use a Pledge of Hands which is a 7link and have 5 spectres.. imagine having two 6links at 6 spectres while someone using 2 midnight bargains forced into a 60% life reservation that is not possible to mitigate in any way tops out at 6 spectres as well.

...wtf?

really lol? you don't understand?

"

robmafia wrote:

1. midnight ALSO provides +1 zombie and +1 skel, so it's OBVIOUSLY does more than just 1 spectre.

2. i have no idea what you think your point is
3. you JUST complained (a lot) about the inverse in the thread i linked
4. wants power creep. gets power creep. complains that with the way the power creep implemented, player isn't more special than other summoners
5. then just use a pledge and not have a shield/2 wands. and?

I don't care at all about zombies or skeletons, Only Spectres.


That thread was about the rarity of the nodes from which the chests drops and them being obtainable within the span of a league, Please stop pretending that it has anything to do with this topic.


I never asked to have more spectres, not in that thread.. not in this thread........ I am saying that using 2x midnight bargain should result in having 2 more spectres than are possible(not additional to the current number) in any other build not using a bargain.


I am also saying that the chest should be given a downside or outright removed from the game entirely.


There's always the soul wick but it too comes at a significant cost which is perfectly reasonable because of the ludicrous buffs it gives to them and the fact without literally breaking the TOS you cant raise exactly what you want reliably.

The midnight bargain should always and forever be king when it comes to having the most Spectres, You pay a significant cost for them and that is the whole point of this thread.

Someone with a damned pledge of hands should not be able to have the same amount of spectres as someone using 2x Midnight bargain without a significant cost.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I don't care at all about zombies or skeletons, Only Spectres.

That does not quite matter here though, as a matter of balance, the item needs to be considered for everything it gives.

Those +1 zombie and +1 skeletons on their own would hardly be worth the investement, but it's still a plus that spectre mains can use.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I am saying that using 2x midnight bargain should result in having 2 more spectres than are possible(not additional to the current number) in any other build not using a bargain.

Why ?

You could also use Esh's Visage with only one midnight bargain to gain +1 spectre and use the chest of your choice, getting a 'free' maim support gem in the chest for example. This is a possibility, and should be considered too.

You could also use a single midnight bargain with a high ES shield to go for a more defensive ES setup, which is harder to obtain from a good delve +1 spectre chest because of how hard it would be to obtain.


Double midnight bargain already gives you +1 spectre than just the chest, it's a questionable choice, but it can work. It being possible does not mean that it's the main purpose of the item though.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Someone with a damned pledge of hands should not be able to have the same amount of spectres as someone using 2x Midnight bargain without a significant cost.

Where do you get that additional +1 spectre after the chest ? ( if using pledge of hands )
Where is the +1 that I am missing ?

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

at levels 11 and 21 you gain back the two +1 to maximum spectres lost in the update which removed it from the Vis Mortis and Bones of ullr

and?

it's not 3.7

your math doesn't add up. you can't just say the spectre gem includes +1 spectre from the chestpiece. because it doesn't.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

really lol? you don't understand?

i don't think there's a valid point to understand.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I don't care at all about zombies or skeletons, Only Spectres.

lolz.

obviously. that was CLEARLY my point. you're omitting affixes.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

That thread was about the rarity of the nodes from which the chests drops and them being obtainable within the span of a league, Please stop pretending that it has anything to do with this topic.

it has EVERYTHING to do with this topic.

you wanted them accessible. then you said it was added to the gem. that makes it freely accessible. by YOUR own statements, you have no complaint.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I never asked to have more spectres, not in that thread.. not in this thread.

you literally did. you want to have more spectres than others.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

The midnight bargain should always and forever be king when it comes to having the most Spectres,

lolz. you omit the other affixes and then state this as if it's fact, when there isn't even any basis behind it.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Someone with a damned pledge of hands should not be able to have the same amount of spectres as someone using 2x Midnight bargain without a significant cost.

huh? how is this the same?