SNEAKY, CONNIVING, SHAMELESS ZOMBIE KILLERS !!!

"

Asmosis wrote:

Just dropping in to point out your math is wrong about zombie slam cooldown.

With nothing else, it recovers at 100% speed (normal). With one source, it recovers at 200% speed. with 3 sources (gem, jewels) it recovers at 400% speed. If your using the gem at L20 (total) your doing something horribly wrong.

Going from 400% to 200% is only twice as long, not 3x as long.

Not to mention the base duration has probably been shortened, since its pretty clear from every other minion change this patch that they're not nerfing anything below what it was pre-patch.

On a sidenote, Guardian is looking really sweet for summoners this patch. 35% inc atk/cast/move speed and a generic 32% more damage for all your minions. Potentially better for Spectre based summoners than Necromancer at this point.

3 sources of 100% increased cooldown recovery speed = 300% increased cooldown recovery speed.

300% of 1, not 400% of 1. My math is not wrong.

Also, the gem clearly states that 76% increased cooldown recovery speed is the ending of it. It does not state that you can achieve higher than this with additional gem levels like certain other abilities do in the very same Patch Notes. Gem level 20 = 76% increased cooldown recovery speed = as much cooldown reduction for a Zombies' Slam as you are going to get.

Of course I naturally use a much higher gem level than this, but for the purposes of cooldown calculations, 76% in Blight is all you're getting for "increased cooldown recovery speed".

Like I said just earlier, however, if this is a translation error on GGG's part for the skill gem, then it makes sense. If it is a blanket reduction to 24% of the original 5s cooldown, then it ends up being a 0.05 second cooldown buff to a Zombies' Slam cooldown, which means we don't actually lose anything at all.

ok i'll try this again.

Lets assume base cooldown is 6 seconds (for simplicity).

having one 100% bonus means you are now recovering at 3 seconds.
having two 100% bonuses means you are now recovering at 2 seconds.
having three 100% bonuses means you are now recovering at 1.5 seconds.

Going from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds is 2x slower, not 3x. I do think you may need to look up how "increased cooldown recovery speed" works, since *I* think you think it's just reducing the cooldown duration, which it's not.

Also the gem level gains cooldown recovery with each gem level. since your adamant you wont go above L20 gem, i'm sure you'll do fantastic in the league. Most everyone else will have 100% (or higher) cooldown recovery on the gem.

"

Asmosis wrote:

ok i'll try this again.

Lets assume base cooldown is 6 seconds (for simplicity).

having one 100% bonus means you are now recovering at 3 seconds.
having two 100% bonuses means you are now recovering at 2 seconds.
having three 100% bonuses means you are now recovering at 1.5 seconds.

Going from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds is 2x slower, not 3x. I do think you may need to look up how "increased cooldown recovery speed" works, since *I* think you think it's just reducing the cooldown duration, which it's not.

Also the gem level gains cooldown recovery with each gem level. since your adamant you wont go above L20 gem, i'm sure you'll do fantastic in the league. Most everyone else will have 100% (or higher) cooldown recovery on the gem.

Going from 6 seconds, to 1.5 seconds, with the addition of 300% increased cooldown recovery speed bonus, thank you very much. You didn't initially begin at 3 seconds, you began at 6 seconds. With that logic, we're both wrong.

Also, do you even freaking read? I clearly said I go above gem level 20. However, the Patch Notes deliberately tell you that 76% cooldown reduction speed is the end of it. It does not state you will be able to obtain more than this with additional gem levels, such as other ability gems that are clearly able to, as stated in the patch notes. For the sake of the cooldown reduction argument, I was using a level 20 gem. Literally, only reason. And I literally just said a whole post ago, that I literally do use a gem higher than level 20.

And for your information, and for the record, it is entirely possible pre-Blight to use a level 20 Raise Zombie to down all content, so yes: If I wanted to use one, I could go incredibly far. Thank you for the recognition.

uh, you *DO* still keep 100% from the gem, which reduces it from 6 seconds to 3 seconds (again hypothetical, icba looking up the actual cooldown).

I'll do you a favor. I'll dig the hole, and you can bury your head in it.

"

Asmosis wrote:

uh, you *DO* still keep 100% from the gem, which reduces it from 6 seconds to 3 seconds (again hypothetical, icba looking up the actual cooldown).

I'll do you a favor. I'll dig the hole, and you can bury your head in it.

No, you do not keep the 100% increased cooldown recovery rate from the Violent Dead jewels whatsoever. Not even the 100% from the Necromancer Ascendency node. 76% is it, as stated in the Patch Notes.

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Anscendant wrote:

[Removed by Support]

No i'm not i'll happily eat every one of my words if it turns out zombies are shit, but nobody has presented any facts because they don't have any. You've got about a 6000 word essay from a guy who can't work out that 76% cooldown reduction at gem level 20 means they get 4% a level lmao sure you can take that as "fact" if you want.

It takes literally a seconds glance to tell that his math is wrong by the way (that you are taking as fact) have some self perspective before you go accusing people of being stupid.

I've got a pretty strong suspicion you are the same guy on an alternate account anyway ^^ but on the off chance your not come back with an actually developed zombie build that performs worse to 3.7 and i'll happily admit I was totally wrong.

Easy bet to take though as there is no chance you'll be back :p

*takes popcorn

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

"

Anscendant wrote:

[Removed by Support]

No i'm not i'll happily eat every one of my words if it turns out zombies are shit, but nobody has presented any facts because they don't have any. You've got about a 6000 word essay from a guy who can't work out that 76% cooldown reduction at gem level 20 means they get 4% a level lmao sure you can take that as "fact" if you want.

It takes literally a seconds glance to tell that his math is wrong by the way (that you are taking as fact) have some self perspective before you go accusing people of being stupid.

I've got a pretty strong suspicion you are the same guy on an alternate account anyway ^^ but on the off chance your not come back with an actually developed zombie build that performs worse to 3.7 and i'll happily admit I was totally wrong.

Easy bet to take though as there is no chance you'll be back :p

[Removed by Support] My math is not incorrect either, by the way; You obviously didn't look at it whatsoever.

I found the animation time spent of my Zombies' attacks for both basics, and Slam, and I calculated precisely how much damage they'll do in the allotted time frame; pre-Blight was 1.25s, and Blight was 3.8s.

With the new information we've been given, they've dropped the native cooldown of 5 seconds down to 4 seconds. This is an improvement, but not by much. Regardless, it is still a nerf. 76% is what the gem says it can be raised to, and it does not state it can achieve more with additional gem levels. I am on the side that says it won't go higher than that. Although, once the patch rolls out and I log in to the game, we'll see pricesely whether it does or does not.

If it does, the newest low that you can potentially bring the cooldown to is somewhere around 1.7 to 1.9 seconds, I forget which off the top of my head.

This is STILL a nerf over the 1.25s that we have currently.

[Removed by Support] I've done the math, and others have done the math. A nerf is a nerf, is a nerf. If you cannot recognize it, then so be it. Stay a closed-minded moron for all anybody cares. I'm personally done responding to you.

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Bretherezenx wrote:

[Removed by Support] I've done the math, and others have done the math. A nerf is a nerf, is a nerf. If you cannot recognize it, then so be it. Stay a closed-minded moron for all anybody cares. I'm personally done responding to you.

Now you are trying to move the goalposts. Go back and look what you are attempting to prove, and i'll give you a hint its not the cooldown now vs the cooldown then that takes literally 2 lines and you wrote about 200.

What you are trying to prove is your absolutely ridiculously over the top statement here. Also nobody else has done the math, which should clue you in as to why yours is totally wrong.

"

Bretherezenx wrote:

then come back and tell somebody that plays a dedicated Zombie Summoner build to calm down. This nerf is beyond atrocious, and for absolutely zero sensible reason.

The nerf murders their AoE clear, and subsequently, their bossing as well.

Everything that a Zombie could do pre-Blight, a Skeleton could already do, up to at least 2x better

Nobody is arguing the cooldown isn't worse, you are trying to prove that zombies are gutted beyond belief. Reading your statements making me laugh all over again like just look at it.

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

"

Bretherezenx wrote:

[Removed by Support] I've done the math, and others have done the math. A nerf is a nerf, is a nerf. If you cannot recognize it, then so be it. Stay a closed-minded moron for all anybody cares. I'm personally done responding to you.

Now you are trying to move the goalposts. Go back and look what you are attempting to prove, and i'll give you a hint its not the cooldown now vs the cooldown then that takes literally 2 lines and you wrote about 200.

What you are trying to prove is your absolutely ridiculously over the top statement here. Also nobody else has done the math, which should clue you in as to why yours is totally wrong.

"

Bretherezenx wrote:

then come back and tell somebody that plays a dedicated Zombie Summoner build to calm down. This nerf is beyond atrocious, and for absolutely zero sensible reason.

The nerf murders their AoE clear, and subsequently, their bossing as well.

Everything that a Zombie could do pre-Blight, a Skeleton could already do, up to at least 2x better

Nobody is arguing the cooldown isn't worse, you are trying to prove that zombies are gutted beyond belief. Reading your statements making me laugh all over again like just look at it.

Comparing Blight's Zombies to pre-Blight? Yes, they are gutted beyond belief. That cooldown reduction makes a LOT of difference. And as a Summoner "yourself", you should be able to recognize that simple fact. Yet you can't, and I wonder why.

The fact of the matter is: Zombies' main form of damage is being gutted, and no other minion, especially Golems, are receiving nerfs of any sort the same as Zombies are. It's unwarranted, it's unnecessary, it's blatantly attempting to shoe-horn Zombies in to a more defensive role for minions.