I think GGG is going in the wrong direction the pacing of the game,aoe => an open discussion

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I_NO wrote:

like 4 people want the game to be slow like you LOL ain't happening

No, there are lots of people that want the game slower. The game was initially branded as a hard core game with an extreme learning curve and high difficulty. GGG have lost their roots and sold their souls for money and mediocrity. This model, however, is not sustainable. When the gravy train ends, and people are tired of flashing lights simulator, the game will die. This would not be a problem in a well balanced game.

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Baron01 wrote:

Just get those rose-tinted glass off. Diablo 2 does not have viable gameplay by any current standards.

That's why a sizeable chunk of the community plays Path of Diablo right now, because it's so much worse in all aspects, right? There seemingly is something with the game which is enjoyable after being 'burned out' from PoE, making it a viable option to switch over to.

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Baron01 wrote:

OP was complaining that skills now have it all and those that do not have it will be changed in some way to fit in. Would you rather have select few skill that are much better than the rest? Well, you already have it, just follow meta builds.

Difference in game-type =//= power imbalance. You can have close-quarter combat and ranged combat while both feel similarly rewarding. What you#re providing is a huge strawman there.

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Baron01 wrote:

There is too much loot and crafting is too powerful. Sure, we have too much loot, so much GGG has to implement loot filter option so we can filter out all the shit loot that drops.

That's what (hopefully properly) will be addressed in 4.0, so at least that part we can hope for.

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Baron01 wrote:

Argument that crafting is too powerful is complete joke. Crafting was for a long time a feature used only by those ultra rich while rest of PoE population did very little crafting and rather spent their currency buying items from others.

This changed with the implementation of fossils, since then your argument is invalid, which brings us to:

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Baron01 wrote:

You can create powerful items but those crafts are not cheap nor they are readily available to everyone from start--most powerful crafting is done via Betrayal veiled mods, which must be obtained in every new league.

First of all the 'most powerful' notion there is utter nonsense from your side. It's a part of the crafting, has powerful options and is very viable at times.
Though crafting a belt with pristine/primstatic + one of the damage/res fossils is a massive upgrade. The same goes for boots, gloves, helmets as the needed mods there roll often. Hence they are quite 'cheap' and powerful, far superior compared to dropped items. This is a clear disparity which shouldn't have been implemented in such a strong manner, de-valuating all other items along the way.

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Baron01 wrote:

It takes significant effort, time or currency to get some of the most powerful crafting options.

Which just isn't true anymore. Anyone can buy fossils relatively cheap and then try 5-10 times, a single craft out of those is most likely a 'good' item superior to everything you've found on the ground, your argument is quite weak there. The system is far bigger then those little parts you've described.

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Baron01 wrote:

So again, what is your complaint about direction PoE is taking? Path of Exile is here for 7 years and there are no competitors for it currently in ARPG genre and there wont be any for foreseeable future.

How about the lack of balance. The disparity between defensive options and offensive options while mobs get ever more spike-damage added to them.
The lack of long-term viability as uber-elder is the last actual goal, often reached within less then a month by veteran players, crafting afterwards being hindered by the badly implemented trading system.
Or what about the sheer volume of useless loot which - as you've already stated - leads to people filtering out 99% of it... oh, not to speak of the stability-issues it causes.
We could also talk about the lack of proper (yes, proper) communication from the side of GGG, giving short comments rather then in-depth insights about their process, current state or roadmap.

Also having 'no' competitors is a laughable notion in itself, after Diablo 3 self-imploded there definitely is a lack of ARPG games with a viable long-term mechanic to keep one hooked. There are some games starting to come close to it though. Grim Dawn provides a good system, not quite as deep but the implementation of how one is provided with loot is far superior, Last Epoch being a young game but nonetheless creating top-tier content steadily.
They are all competitors in the same sector, the only upside PoE has is a focus on multiplayer... even if it's barely viable at the current state to call it that, it has that upside as a focus.

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Kahirn wrote:

Complaining about a clear speed meta when the genre of ARPGs has had an emphasis on clear speed since it began is just weird to me. It would be like getting angry that RPGs tune the hardest difficulty for power gamers. It doesn't make sense to me. Every ARPG turns into a speed simulator at the very high end because the best way to increase loot drops is going fast.

I have to agree, the core examples of ARPG always had ways to get fairly fast. Though it's not the only way. Just take Age of Wonders or Grim Dawn as an example, they got capped MS and thus don't provide the 'zoom zoom boom' type of game-play. So there are other viable options out there.

The issue with PoE is that it's moving away from the RPG part in the ARPG and more towards a bullet-hell where only 'don't get hit' matters. The difference between various kinds of content in PoE is dwindling ever further.
While formerly the core game was focused a lot on Act 1-10 and maps. Though still we had lab (with a half-way reasonable amount of enchants), atziri which one needed to gear specifically towards and then Shaper as the end-goal which was fairly hard to kill 'back in the day'. All of those provided a fairly different style of play, multi-phased bosses which felt unique and you couldn't just 'push' through with pure DPS.
Now even uber-elder is just a DPS-check, the majority of mechanics are time-based in some way or 'tunnel walkers' with nice loot (at times) at the end. It changed quite a bit.

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KiwiGivl wrote:

No, there are lots of people that want the game slower. The game was initially branded as a hard core game with an extreme learning curve and high difficulty. GGG have lost their roots and sold their souls for money and mediocrity. This model, however, is not sustainable. When the gravy train ends, and people are tired of flashing lights simulator, the game will die. This would not be a problem in a well balanced game.

Exactly.

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Mythreindeer wrote:

I agree with all the criticisms of the OP and others as they are spot on. The question I think is how long can it go before it implodes. The vast majority of games do when the balance goes all to hell. Certainly PoE is on that road. I see possibilities but at the risk of losing current "high end" players.

Just how long do you think this "implosion" will take? People have been saying the same thing for over 5 years now. Of course some day the game will die like all games do. But if the cause is what you say, wouldn't it have happened years ago?

I think my only problem with the clear speed / faster gameplay is that it has made the game a bit boring. I mean, it is almost mindless to run maps and bosses. Even Shaper doesn't require much thought, anymore. Uber Elder, maybe a little more.

There is not much that is scary about the game anymore. It has come to a point, you load up on a meta build and basically act like a vacuum cleaner across the mobs and go and kill the boss in a few seconds.

You really don't have to think much about what you are doing and how you are doing it. You can choose to go in a different direction and actually enjoy the content of the game, which is mostly missed nowadays, but the problem is that with the timed content and size of mobs it is just built for that anymore.

I say all this, while at the same time enjoying the fast game as well. It just doesn't have the unique appeal as POE had back when I started. It was cool to see the details they put into things and have to plan on how to attack a boss or unique. That part of the game is unfortunately long gone. There just isn't anything scary about the game. It does keep me from playing as much and that has made me decide to not buy packs or Micro-transactions moving forward. Not because I don't feel like it is a fun game, it just doesn't have the same feel to it anymore.

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KiwiGivl wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

like 4 people want the game to be slow like you LOL ain't happening

No, there are lots of people that want the game slower. The game was initially branded as a hard core game with an extreme learning curve and high difficulty. GGG have lost their roots and sold their souls for money and mediocrity. This model, however, is not sustainable. When the gravy train ends, and people are tired of flashing lights simulator, the game will die. This would not be a problem in a well balanced game.

Oh yeah that's why they keep speeding the game right? Hahahahahahaa naw YOU THE MINORITY.

Speed is king and that's good people don't want slow shit cept like yeah 4 of you.

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I_NO wrote:

Oh yeah that's why they keep speeding the game right? Hahahahahahaa naw YOU THE MINORITY.

Speed is king and that's good people don't want slow shit cept like yeah 4 of you.

Yea it s like saying the the kardashians is a fucking great show because it get big numbers. We all know this show is a success because most trailer trash have bad taste.

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I_NO wrote:

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KiwiGivl wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

like 4 people want the game to be slow like you LOL ain't happening

No, there are lots of people that want the game slower. The game was initially branded as a hard core game with an extreme learning curve and high difficulty. GGG have lost their roots and sold their souls for money and mediocrity. This model, however, is not sustainable. When the gravy train ends, and people are tired of flashing lights simulator, the game will die. This would not be a problem in a well balanced game.

Oh yeah that's why they keep speeding the game right? Hahahahahahaa naw YOU THE MINORITY.

Speed is king and that's good people don't want slow shit cept like yeah 4 of you.

i dont like the speed meta,but not because its fast...
the speed between different asendancys and starting locations matters a lot,if you dont have bis items

its fine when some classes are faster,but 2 or even 3 (often even more) times as fast? no thats just bs especially when ggg starts balancing bosses around it...

i know all current bosses are very doable with just the 30-35% from boots and the game experience and rewards(if both players play the same time) are very different.

movementspeed is just so essential for every build,that starting as witch/marauder/templar just feels horrible

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I_NO wrote:

Oh yeah that's why they keep speeding the game right? Hahahahahahaa naw YOU THE MINORITY.

Speed is king and that's good people don't want slow shit cept like yeah 4 of you.

Never before in the history of gaming has a company done something which was bad for the game. Never before this was seen!

Also never before has a dev made something which put people away from their game before... only realizing in hindsight they screwed up without knowing how to fix it and pushing away the influx of different players, fearing they would stand without any at all afterwards. Impossible to imagine!

You're really arrogant there, you know? De-valuing those who don't share the same point of view while thinking yours is the only viable one available. You're providing the prime example of a Bandwagon fallacy. Just because it's the popular opinion at the time doesn't make it right.

Especially when it comes to MS here, which relates directly to clear-speed. By your logic nobody should play something else besides TS or similar fast builds anymore as all others are not viable. That's counter to the ideology of the game to provide a large array of build-options. If those are gone a large chunk of the player-base will leave with them, this is what will happen.
Sure new people will follow afterwards... but there is no guarantee that they will make up for those lost, not with so many competitors actually getting into the game by now.

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Kulze wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

Oh yeah that's why they keep speeding the game right? Hahahahahahaa naw YOU THE MINORITY.

Speed is king and that's good people don't want slow shit cept like yeah 4 of you.

Never before in the history of gaming has a company done something which was bad for the game. Never before this was seen!

Also never before has a dev made something which put people away from their game before... only realizing in hindsight they screwed up without knowing how to fix it and pushing away the influx of different players, fearing they would stand without any at all afterwards. Impossible to imagine!

You're really arrogant there, you know? De-valuing those who don't share the same point of view while thinking yours is the only viable one available. You're providing the prime example of a Bandwagon fallacy. Just because it's the popular opinion at the time doesn't make it right.

Especially when it comes to MS here, which relates directly to clear-speed. By your logic nobody should play something else besides TS or similar fast builds anymore as all others are not viable. That's counter to the ideology of the game to provide a large array of build-options. If those are gone a large chunk of the player-base will leave with them, this is what will happen.
Sure new people will follow afterwards... but there is no guarantee that they will make up for those lost, not with so many competitors actually getting into the game by now.

Nope you're the minority and that's that nothing by logic will make this any better.

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I_NO wrote:

Nope you're the minority and that's that nothing by logic will make this any better.

Care to explain instead of simply spouting your personal ideology there?

I would like to know what your logical conclusion to get to this statement is, or if it's a simple belief based on nothing feasable or provable.

Especially since logic dictates that neither being in the minority nor being in the majority dictates if an outcome is true or false.

So, from which point do you derive the logic that speed-meta is a 'good' thing? Are there clear examples that it's this mechanic which makes the game worthwhile compared to the others PoE offers? Also are the effects it creates interchangeable with other mechanics which don't have as many negative impacts (different ones obviously, but not as severe ones)?