EXP LOSS POLL

i think it should stay for the content we have.


I think theres space to explore tho with side content where you go in, its a 1 shot deal, super difficult and if you complete it you get the xp and items from it, if you die you get booted out of the instance without any rewards and you have to try again.

I think theres something to be said for having content in your game that is extremely challenging, to the point where its essentially suicide 9 out of 10 times... but you are encouraged to try it, and again, and again, and change ur build up and go again, and again, then min/max a bit and go again and THEN you succeed and feel awesome u finally beat the bloody thing and u can go to everyone and say hey, i beat this level of this thing cause im dapper as fk, come at me.



...and then you now have access to an even harder version.



the xp penalty is great for what we have but it does create a situation where all of the content is about assessment. A good player is one who understands what their character can do, what the content will demand, and only picks the battles theyre vast odds on favourite to beat. Poe is a game where you cherry pick opponents all ur way to the world title. It would be nice to have some kind of content in there where youre encouraged to go in as the david against the goliath and measure your achievement by how far you can get before you lose.


geomitry wars is an awesome game right? super fun, you always lose, but you can brag about how long you hung in there and that has meaning.

If I tell you I beat a guardian whats the feeling in the room here? Who gives a fk right? meaningless.

In order to be good I have to be bad, if I make a shit build thats some ci+eb abomination and I only use 3 items, all blue, and then I beat a guardian, then im good ya? If my character is a dumpsterfire that looks like an absolute noob threw it together when drunk THEN I can be considered a good player for beating content through being a shit player who made a terrible build.

Thats a standard response we see, of course poe is challenging, try being a bad player who makes terrible decisions, then youll have a challenging game... ok. Well there is actually space to provide that for good players who make good decisions, but you kind of have to take it outside the realm of failing being unacceptable, which is what hc and death penalty impose on content for most people.

Many more people would still be playing poe if there wasnt xp loss. I know many of them.

In a way its a content restriction, not doing un id'd t15 maps when im at 60%. Cant do content sometimes because i got xp to lose.

People who print, frame and hang up their "video game achievements" on the wall like its art will probably disagree.

Gonna have to agree with OP. Death penalty is pretty useless. Pretty much everyone who says they've never thought so are fat mouths and liars. It would be one thing if the leagues were actually a race to 100, but we know they're not. We all just want gear and good builds.
There's already a death penalty in the endgame as most of your attempts will be limited to 6. It hurts pretty bad to lose all of your portals doing shaper/guardians/ubers etc. in addition to 60% xp loss. I say get rid of it. There's no reason to penalize players with lost hours of playtime over poor balancing/technical issues/or even honest mistakes.

And why don't we make a poll to know if players should not receive a Tabula Raza upon reaching a6 ?
That would be utterly stupid of a question right ?

Well, about this thread now ...

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Head_less wrote:

no,

and it s not the most stupid thing in existence, I think the stupidest one is this thread imo.

lol, I would not call it the stupidest thing, but it's something already for sure.

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snorkle_uk wrote:

A good player is one who understands what their character can do, what the content will demand, and only picks the battles theyre vast odds on favourite to beat. Poe is a game where you cherry pick opponents all ur way to the world title. It would be nice to have some kind of content in there where youre encouraged to go in as the david against the goliath and measure your achievement by how far you can get before you lose.

I think that those concepts are completely foreign to OP

Well then, exp-loss once again, I'll give my 2 cents about the situation.

First of all, I wholeheartedly agree that hard content should have punishment for not managing to finish it.

Also I agree with the players who want to simply play and not worry about repeating the same thing over.. and over... and over again without any light upon the end of the tunnel so to speak.

The current system worked well, it was a good implementation back in the days and it has done it's job very well... though by now we know it's fairly outdated as a concept and far better systems have been implemented.

Why am I saying that though?

Exp-loss is a punishment-system, any form of punishment in a game leads to frustration, that frustration is focused on the people with low experience (for playing the game, not the char) or low skills. While the game caters to a more die-hard consumer-base it's still possible to please those people without any ill-effects.

The alternative for a punishment-system is... well... a reward-system. Manage to finish a specific form of content and you're getting rewarded for it, otherwise not.

What is my suggestion therefore?

Doing something which goes well with the issues about progression in the current state of the game as well as rewarding people for finishing any specific content.

First stage:

-Removal of the exp-loss.
-Implementation of loot-drop at the end of the map entirely, you have to finish the boss before any loot in the map drops.
-No map drops, instead you get a choice of several maps depending on item quantity and killed mobs at the end of the run.

Second stage:

-Dis-engaging the established portal-system from the map-device while implementing a difficulty-setting. Higher difficulty = less tries available.
-In HC ONLY the default difficulty is available, this hinders power-farming or easy-mode runs to level up.
-Adding a room after killing the boss, there all loot drops, the higher the difficulty the more slots for items to take out at the end are available. Hence higher difficulty = more available loot.
-Adjusting the drop-rate regarding for the new system, it allows for a vastly increased amount of control for GGG as well as for the players.

Third stage:

-Adding new attack patterns for bosses as well as phases with increasing difficulty. The lowest is just 'slap until dead'. The higher you go the more difficult and time-intensive it gets.
-Re-designing the map-drop-mechanic entirely. Low difficulty gives low-tier maps in returns, high difficulty lets you choose harder maps in returns.

What would be the upsides for such a system?

-People won't get punished anymore for dieing, besides loosing the map.
-People don't get rewarded for dieing though unlike now, there is no loot available unless the content is cleared.
-The time-investment is roughly the same for the rewards.
-It gives a lot more power to GGG for balancing rewards properly.
-It gives a lot more power to the players for choosing their content.
-Higher difficulty creates inherently more interesting fights at the end of a map, something to strive for.
-The difficulty can be raised further then a single try, a multiplier for loot can be issued for those people who have a very strong build.
-Area level gets proper meaning besides the ilvl of bases, quick low-content is inherently less viable then high-content which takes long.
-It both pleases casuals as well as those who want a challenge.
-Specific drops can be unlocked after increasing the difficulty far enough, giving unique rewards for those who work out their build especially well, a new layer of end-game available.

Which issues would be visible during those changes, and how to take care of them?

First of all it would mean that loot is visible only in a small space... and we know how PoE handles that.
The solution is a specific amount of loot dropping which you sort out, having to remove the whole leftover amount with a click to some interactive item (out of the way to prevent missclicks) and spawn another 'set' of loot, all until the whole amount is gone and you've choosen your rewards freely.

Secondly It's resource- and time-intensive. This won't be viable for 3.8... or 3.9... or even 4.0. The whole adjustment is more likely to be in the direction of 5.0 and steadily changed with each new league.
The solution is obvious, going one step at a time and offering a clear-structured road-map for such a vast undertaking.

Third it's a problem with the handling regarding old maps, the further the system is adjusted the less maps will be available for a player (making each more meaningful while giving a proper use of the map-stash even for solo-map farmers). People with vast stores of older maps will have an advantage of choice at the beginning.
This can be solved by exchanging the old maps not 1 to 1 like it is now, instead adjusting this number further and further as the process advances.


All in all that's one of the few solutions I've though up a long while ago already. The parts are taken from existing systems which advanced over time from punishing players to purely rewarding them for clearing content. PoE is in a unique position of providing more then enough possible content by now to allow something in this size to be implemented and be a functioning thing, it's meant to scale into the future and ease the burden on adjusting numbers over time.

Always funny to see how some people claim the 6 portals are some sort of a punishment. What kind of yokel build are you running to die so much. I mean hell, I have 5k HP here and its rare to die once.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Always funny to see how some people claim the 6 portals are some sort of a punishment. What kind of yokel build are you running to die so much. I mean hell, I have 5k HP here and its rare to die once.

Casuals, people who are really bad at games.. such people.

It's also not to be seen separate, we already loose 10% exp, why also punish for messing up then?
This is the case because we can't loose the level, hence that's the stop-gap for not simply 'dieing through' the content and receiving the reward nonetheless.

Hence if the exp-punishment goes the re-work of the portal-system can suddenly be focused, this allows for other mechanics to finally be adjusted properly. PoE is a patchwork game which was slapped together over a long time, the patchwork was never streamlined and properly worked out though, it would finally be able to be done then.

I sill maintain they solve this the way they solve everything in poe - with a currency item. I've been suggesting this idea for months.

Make an "orb of remembrance" or something - about as rare as a chaos but gives you a 10% buffer against xp loss.

Make it only drop in sc leagues or standard.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Always funny to see how some people claim the 6 portals are some sort of a punishment. What kind of yokel build are you running to die so much. I mean hell, I have 5k HP here and its rare to die once.

Corrupted double boss Acid Lakes got me twice today. Such a cluttered layout and had two cyclone guys. Had to kite them a pretty long ways.

Some of the legion mobs hit extremely hard with map mods and offensive aura's stacking (like early betrayal yellows).

A room filled with frost sentinals, multi proj and damage mods hurt as well.

The titty bitches got me a few times, some of them hit like a truck

I die a bunch, expert on the matter :)

6 portals tho...

so if I only die 5 times in every map I run Im good to go? that qualifies me to carry on unhindered?


the day the game is reduced to portals being the only penalty for death they had better introduce some tier 40 maps to go along with it.

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Saf3tyhazard wrote:

Death penalty is pretty useless. Pretty much everyone who says they've never thought so are fat mouths and liars.

remarkable.