Spectre chest insanity.

"

robmafia wrote:

Dear,

I honestly do not understand, why you are so arguing, that this kind of stuff should be still like as it is.

In the POE crafting system, it's basically ridiculous.

Let's look on all crafting system of POE, it gives always several ways in all rare system to obtain possible suffix/prefix for the items, and only in case of +1 spectre to chests, it only drops. At least, based on my knowledge, there is no other modifiers in rare items like this.

I agree, that unique items can be only dropped from some locations, that's why they called "Unique", but rares is different story.

And again, i agree, that this is endgame item, and it should be still precious, and it should not be like crap always available, so for example, conditions that this exists only on elder/shaper body armours of item level 83+ would still make it very valuable. What if in next league there will be no delve? We should die in 1 unique item called Vis Mortis?

"

pphnx wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

...the irony is overwhelming.

this thread puts so much emphasis on the mod and even calls it "mandatory." then people want to argue against it in favor of "90 minion damage, 15 minion AS and Cast Speed on 1H weapon" which should be objectively worse for any build with minion passives allocated.

*facepalm*

re: poeninja.

*clicked on the top one.*

midnight bargain AND vis mortis.

*closed tab*

Midnight Bargain is good if you cover its downside. You have to go ES to cover it. You are not using Shavrone you have to stack Chaos Res which is pain in the ass. Even if you stack CR; decent chaos damage will still kill you. You have to be careful where to farm. You have to know which monsters have chaos damage. It's not for everyone.

What you must understand from this? Midnight Bargain has downside. Did you get it?

Do I have to repeat 32nd times?

Rare spec chest has no downside.

These chests are way way better than Vis still around ~15ex
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Legion/DeJJ22S5

Use midnight bargain over rare spectre chest is retarded argument.

you just supported MY point.

read this thread. count the number of times i argued that uniques do/should have a downside. how many times? 10? 15? 20+? i honestly don't remember, i seemingly had to state it on every page.

it's largely why the +1 spectre mod is so OP on boots/chest.

and getting max chaos res is easy. especially after betrayal.

"

icovex wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

Dear,

I honestly do not understand, why you are so arguing, that this kind of stuff should be still like as it is.

In the POE crafting system, it's basically ridiculous.

Let's look on all crafting system of POE, it gives always several ways in all rare system to obtain possible suffix/prefix for the items, and only in case of +1 spectre to chests, it only drops. At least, based on my knowledge, there is no other modifiers in rare items like this.

I agree, that unique items can be only dropped from some locations, that's why they called "Unique", but rares is different story.

And again, i agree, that this is endgame item, and it should be still precious, and it should not be like crap always available, so for example, conditions that this exists only on elder/shaper body armours of item level 83+ would still make it very valuable. What if in next league there will be no delve? We should die in 1 unique item called Vis Mortis?

yes, actually. the best part is... you just described the problem (imbalance, power creep, why the mod is OP), but instead... think the inverse. why should OP mods be easy to attain? what possible good comes from it?

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

This thread is about making it LESS rare, not necessarily making it SUPER EASY to get.

Lets argue over something that like with the +1 totem on shield which the unique shield that gives this has a downside of forcing blood magic a rare shield does not have this downside.

There's no good reason for the body to be as rare as it is, it should have been available when totems +1 on shield was added which is much more powerful than having to add it on your BODY armour for most builds.

this could be an argument if +1 totem was also a rare boot affix.

"

robmafia wrote:

this could be an argument if +1 totem was also a rare boot affix.

Totems average at about 4-5 max without the shield, With the boots and chest spectres average at about 4, With the shield 5-6 is your average totem count if you are fully dedicated without a 30% Life reservation UNAFFECTED by reservation nodes per spectre 5+ with midnight bargain on spectres.

With that logic here we'd have +7 totem builds to make it "fair" just so that a summoner could have 4 spectres without the vis mortis without jumping through hoops that honestly you could do for an ENTIRE LEAGUE and never stand a chance at actually finding this item.

Which i have done ^ in tandem with a group of 3-4 people trying for the entire synthesis league.

Lets also bring into play here the fact that when leaving the vis mortis you also lose minion damage and a powerful buff on kill for your spectres, The spectre body armour is random in its base and has to be anulled and heavily crafted to become actually useful, Combine this with the extreme rarity of it being obtainable in delve in literal months of farming and i've officially failed to see any point in the argument provided.

"

robmafia wrote:

yes, actually. the best part is... you just described the problem (imbalance, power creep, why the mod is OP), but instead... think the inverse. why should OP mods be easy to attain? what possible good comes from it?

Let me say it in other way, for example. There is a very rare mod for the wand - 20% reduced Soul Cost of Vaal Skills, it is obtained through:

- Drop in the Delve
- Drop in the Legion
- Crafted through bloodstained fossil.

All of this ways are quite expensive, rare, weapon with this suffix are started from 80 chaos, crap weapons, valuable high tier weapons starting from 1 exalts, and you can receive it elder based/shaper based.

But still! This items are available in different ways to achieve, and not only drops. For some Vaal builds they are mandatory.

And if we will go on, we will find more rare suffixes/prefixes which still can be found in different ways. And this is how POE overall philosophy works, why exactly for "+1 Spectres" it should be different?

If i cannot craft it, i cannot use elder/shaper possible prefixes/suffixes, i cannot create interesting builds with other possible outcomes, for example arcana surge or maim... I need copypaste +1 spectre, multiple crafted modifiers, max life, some of the resistance and +1 to curses. Great and interesting.

[Removed by Support]

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

With your logic here we'd have +7 totem builds to make it "fair" just so that a summoner could have 4 spectres without the vis mortis without jumping through hoops that honestly you could do for an ENTIRE LEAGUE and never stand a chance at actually finding this item.

...in what multiverse is that my logic?!

my logic dictates that totems should be capped less, too. with an exception to the multitotem gem, which carries a downside.

"

icovex wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

yes, actually. the best part is... you just described the problem (imbalance, power creep, why the mod is OP), but instead... think the inverse. why should OP mods be easy to attain? what possible good comes from it?

Let me say it in other way, for example. There is a very rare mod for the wand - 20% reduced Soul Cost of Vaal Skills, it is obtained through:

- Drop in the Delve
- Drop in the Legion
- Crafted through bloodstained fossil.

All of this ways are quite expensive, rare, weapon with this suffix are started from 80 chaos, crap weapons, valuable high tier weapons starting from 1 exalts, and you can receive it elder based/shaper based.

But still! This items are available in different ways to achieve, and not only drops. For some Vaal builds they are mandatory.

And if we will go on, we will find more rare suffixes/prefixes which still can be found in different ways. And this is how POE overall philosophy works, why exactly for "+1 Spectres" it should be different?

If i cannot craft it, i cannot use elder/shaper possible prefixes/suffixes, i cannot create interesting builds with other possible outcomes, for example arcana surge or maim... I need copypaste +1 spectre, multiple crafted modifiers, max life, some of the resistance and +1 to curses. Great and interesting.

this would be an argument... if vis mortis didn't exist.

the problem is that you (collectively) don't just want +1 spectre on chest. you want +1 spectre on a gg/OPOPie chestpiece. and you want it to be fairly cheap, all things considered.

worse, many have argued that the mod is "mandatory," while... foregoing it in their weapon slot.

tl;dr - it's OBVIOUSLY not mandatory, and the only real complaint is that there isn't cheap access to OPOPie spectre chestpieces. as if that's how the game should be balanced/what the baseline should be.

the fact that the top spectre summoner was running vis mortis and midnight bargain should tell you (again, collective) something.

the power creep in the boots department didn't make seemingly anyone content, it just made you (collectively) want it on chestpieces, too.

it's as if this is a YUGE problem in poe, or something

"

robmafia wrote:

this would be an argument... if vis mortis didn't exist.

the problem is that you (collectively) don't just want +1 spectre on chest. you want +1 spectre on a gg/OPOPie chestpiece. and you want it to be fairly cheap, all things considered.

worse, many have argued that the mod is "mandatory," while... foregoing it in their weapon slot.

tl;dr - it's OBVIOUSLY not mandatory, and the only real complaint is that there isn't cheap access to OPOPie spectre chestpieces. as if that's how the game should be balanced/what the baseline should be.

the fact that the top spectre summoner was running vis mortis and midnight bargain should tell you (again, collective) something.

the power creep in the boots department didn't make seemingly anyone content, it just made you (collectively) want it on chestpieces, too.

it's as if this is a YUGE problem in poe, or something

Hmm, yes, i want to have the possibility to have it on GG/OPOP chestpiece, where i can increase my sustainability, increase my damage, increase my life, increase my everything. So what is the problem with this? Why i have only one choice, to have it on crap chest without the possibility to modify it, add cool nodes and cool items on it.

Where i have wrote, that it should be fairly cheap? Crap chestpiece with +1 spectre already have a price of around 1-2 exalts, which is cheap enough. In the beginning of the league, was around 4-5 exalts, which is comparatively the same price, as most of the people are paying for good not 6-linked chestpiece. But they are paying for this, when they have the key modes already rolled on there, and i have the chance, only to drop it, and to make it worth, i need to annul it without the chance to getting it back, if annul is not working correctly.

If you do not know, it is the same situation as for all other chestpieces, if imagine, that i will receive +1 spectres to be possible to craft on the body armour, to make it interesting for me, i need to take +1 to support gems, +1 to additional curses, + T1 max flat life - and to make it, you can spend even without spectres hundreds of exalts and not receiving it, so what the crap are you saying as on date?

"

robmafia wrote:

"

icovex wrote:

"

robmafia wrote:

yes, actually. the best part is... you just described the problem (imbalance, power creep, why the mod is OP), but instead... think the inverse. why should OP mods be easy to attain? what possible good comes from it?

Let me say it in other way, for example. There is a very rare mod for the wand - 20% reduced Soul Cost of Vaal Skills, it is obtained through:

- Drop in the Delve
- Drop in the Legion
- Crafted through bloodstained fossil.

All of this ways are quite expensive, rare, weapon with this suffix are started from 80 chaos, crap weapons, valuable high tier weapons starting from 1 exalts, and you can receive it elder based/shaper based.

But still! This items are available in different ways to achieve, and not only drops. For some Vaal builds they are mandatory.

And if we will go on, we will find more rare suffixes/prefixes which still can be found in different ways. And this is how POE overall philosophy works, why exactly for "+1 Spectres" it should be different?

If i cannot craft it, i cannot use elder/shaper possible prefixes/suffixes, i cannot create interesting builds with other possible outcomes, for example arcana surge or maim... I need copypaste +1 spectre, multiple crafted modifiers, max life, some of the resistance and +1 to curses. Great and interesting.

this would be an argument... if vis mortis didn't exist.

the problem is that you (collectively) don't just want +1 spectre on chest. you want +1 spectre on a gg/OPOPie chestpiece. and you want it to be fairly cheap, all things considered.

worse, many have argued that the mod is "mandatory," while... foregoing it in their weapon slot.

tl;dr - it's OBVIOUSLY not mandatory, and the only real complaint is that there isn't cheap access to OPOPie spectre chestpieces. as if that's how the game should be balanced/what the baseline should be.

the fact that the top spectre summoner was running vis mortis and midnight bargain should tell you (again, collective) something.

the power creep in the boots department didn't make seemingly anyone content, it just made you (collectively) want it on chestpieces, too.

it's as if this is a YUGE problem in poe, or something

If a cyclone player can get 6L chest with :
attacks have -15 mana cons
+1 maim support
+100 max life
%8 max life
+may be some resist
(most of the time this is way better than 6L Belly)

With only 5-6 ex


Yea I want my goddamn +1 spectre rare chets at least under 10ex

For powercreep :
Stop it. I dont have a problem with that.
But if you dont make +1 spectre chest more accesible.