A broad P2W definition in law would paint premium stash tabs P2W

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WhaleBusiness wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I mean wow. Winning in single player? Really? (Heres a tip, you always win, becuase no one else literally can)

Yawn. Arguing about winning is standard for the white knights because they have no real logical argument. The problem here is only that the GGG brown-nosers dislike the word and therefore wants to pretend that stash tabs aren't. The "winning" argument is an insult to anyone with even a peanut sized brain. At best.

Meh this pointless.

If people honestly believe that P2W happens in single player, and that any sort of real money purchase that impacts gameplay is P2W, then that literally includes all games that we have access to currently.

At this point stop decrying P2W, and just say you hate the entire industry. It would probably be a better arguement overall, and maybe we could discuss how games should monetize in the future.

Cosmetics are part of gameplay.

Consider the number of modern games with very extensive cosmetic customization, which they use as a big selling point. Hell, a lot of games put the cosmetics front and center, make it a primary part of the game. Saint's Row comes to mind off the top of my head, where putting together wild looks for you and your gang is a big part of the game. Plenty of games out there make finding your style and creating a special aesthetic a big part of gameplay.

So why should cosmetics be excused from the evil soul-sucking tar brush that is PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO? You're arguing that literally fuckoff anything which affects gameplay is PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO, and thusly should be considered a deep sin and an actual crime before being expunged from human creation.

DLC story packs for games like Pillars of Eternity? PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO

Map expansions for competitive shooters? PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO

Bonus gameplay modes/missions for games like Nier: Automata? PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO

Settlement mode parts expanders for Fallout 4? PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO

They all affect gameplay. In most cases they are gameplay, just more of it/a different kind. They cost money above and beyond the base price of the game. Thus, by your definition, PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO.

Do you think maybe, just maybe - just a wee little bit - that modern gamers have in some cases become total shits about the PEE TWO DUBBLEYOO thing, and we should maybe stop throwing it at every single thing someone asks us to pay for? Save it for times when it's actually awful, like, ohh...the entirety of Destiny's MTX store, rather than an issue that's solved forever with about thirty percent of a five-dollar purchase tops?

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Meh this pointless.

If people honestly believe that P2W happens in single player, and that any sort of real money purchase that impacts gameplay is P2W, then that literally includes all games that we have access to currently.

At this point stop decrying P2W, and just say you hate the entire industry. It would probably be a better arguement overall, and maybe we could discuss how games should monetize in the future.

Oh please. If POE was single player only, I doubt that you would think that it was okay to sell exalts, boosters for real money while puffing your chest and claiming that there is no pay to win. Your argument is comedy at best.

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1453R wrote:

???

Just lol. Fanboy defense without logic. Nothing more.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Exactly. Nobody says cosmetics affect gameplay--because they don't. They don't increase drop rates, stash space, damage output, player durability, etc. He basically just committed the same logical fallacy, but in a different form, that Darthski44 did.

Actually this is why we see your stance as wrong, as you fail to realize how too broad a definition of P2W means you could technically flag anything monetized as p2w if you have to pay for it.

I mean, going back to the OP's original post, I get why he/she would suggest it, but if anything it's for our own good that inconvenience exists.

It's clear that those of you wanting to argue don't know what its like to be truly plagued by botting like that of D2. That's not to say the problem doesn't exist in PoE today, it's just that you guys are so focused on your own accounts you aren't even considering how free accounts with premium trade tabs would likely devastate the economy allowing botters to mule and trade at little to no cost and risk to themselves.

But hell, even the concept of muling is foreign to too many of you.

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1453R wrote:

???*99

cometics don't affect how you play/can play the game unlike stash tabs that's all i'm gonna say since you will keep making up dumb arguments while disregarding what others say

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WhaleBusiness wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Meh this pointless.

If people honestly believe that P2W happens in single player, and that any sort of real money purchase that impacts gameplay is P2W, then that literally includes all games that we have access to currently.

At this point stop decrying P2W, and just say you hate the entire industry. It would probably be a better arguement overall, and maybe we could discuss how games should monetize in the future.

Oh please. If POE was single player only, I doubt that you would think that it was okay to sell exalts, boosters for real money while puffing your chest and claiming that there is no pay to win. Your argument is comedy at best.

This makes no sense. Even in your example, if I was playing SSF(which is very close to single player) in a league, and someone in Standard bought an exalt, how does this impact me from a P2W standpoint?

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DarthSki44 wrote:

This makes no sense.

Yes it does. It's just hard for white knights to comprehend arguments that goes against GGG.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Exactly. Nobody says cosmetics affect gameplay--because they don't. They don't increase drop rates, stash space, damage output, player durability, etc. He basically just committed the same logical fallacy, but in a different form, that Darthski44 did.

It's clear that those of you wanting to argue don't know what its like to be truly plagued by botting like that of D2. That's not to say the problem doesn't exist in PoE today, it's just that you guys are so focused on your own accounts you aren't even considering how free accounts with premium trade tabs would likely devastate the economy allowing botters to mule and trade at little to no cost and risk to themselves.

But hell, even the concept of muling is foreign to too many of you.

see, you know premium stash tabs offer a very big advantage over those who don't have them and yet claim they aren't P2W/paid advantage w/e you wanna call it.

Although i do understand that bots having access to that advantage for free would indeed allow them to fuck the economy even more than they already do

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WhaleBusiness wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

This makes no sense.

Yes it does. It's just hard for white knights to comprehend arguments that goes against GGG.

LOL

game advertised as "f2p"

players checks the game, limited space on a genre where loot falls from trees and under rocks on the pay wall.

that's even before seeing the complexity of the rest of the path of crafting meta.

synthesis the crafting league based on how many stashes do you own.. nothing engaging as true ARPG.

yall can have counter arguments and actually believe that stashes are not some sort of p2w or pay to be more efficient..

but the simple fact that most of the forum users here are literally WILLING to pay for quality of life changes rather than earning them in game or basically for free because it's the way of things.. means why you deserve to be milked in every single way.

nothing is gonna change, GGG wont allow the f2p player to earn lesser versions of the p2qol stashes in game.. they already know they can keep this "honest" business by getting more money off everyone by selling cosmetics and qol.

but one thing is certain, more people needs to realize that the game isnt really free to play.. the deeper you go, it will need your money regardless.. "but you dont need stashes" well that's on you and the way you play, isnt it? or you're going to force each one to play the way you do? GGG already does that on the post I gave exact details as new player in this game and how it affects your experience.