A broad P2W definition in law would paint premium stash tabs P2W

Jesus Christ.

Stash tabs are in a grey area. I can see the arguments for and against them being P2W. It all depends on their own, subjective definition of "win". If "efficiency" and "pr hour" is your focus in game, then of course you view tabs as P2W, because they let your orginize items faster, and lets you sell items faster. You save time. "I'm doing this game faster and more efficient than the guy next to me; I'm winning".

If you don't focus on "efficiency" and "pr hour", the tabs won't give you much benefits compared to the guy next to you. They are there for you to hoard items in. They are QoL. They won't take you closer to "winning".

What I don't understand, is why people are unable to say "Oh, we're deisagreeing, we have different definitions of the abbreviation "P2W". Cool", instead of the "I AM RIGHT, YOU ARE WRONG - BECAUSE MY DEFINITION IS COOLER THAN YOURS".

It. Doesn't. Matter. If. YOU or I define it as "P2W" or not.

so much bullshit I have to wipe my eyes constantly reading the pure trash I'm reading from the opinions..

a wall of text to try gain some symphathy but still thinking it's not pay to be more efficient.

if I wanted to play chess and "decide" things I know my way out but that's not the case A R P G game.

Action
Role
Player
Game

I don't enjoy thinking everytime I do any content in this game: oh look, this item I shouldnt pick up because my space is limited since dealing with trade is awful unless it's with bots.
oh look some unique I have to right away UI and stop doing stuff and price check because the space I have is limited. And I could go and go..

Nobody is playing competition unless you think you're, if you do please mark yourself as clueless since this thread is about stashes being pay to win because they are they dont interrupt the flow of your game because you don't have to make stupid decisions because you decide to not support such shady business type.
Of course I want to be efficient, who doesnt? that doesnt mean I'm willing to fall into the rat trap and give up regardless like a bunch of sheeps already did years ago looks like.

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Phrazz wrote:

Jesus Christ.

Stash tabs are in a grey area. I can see the arguments for and against them being P2W. It all depends on their own, subjective definition of "win". If "efficiency" and "pr hour" is your focus in game, then of course you view tabs as P2W, because they let your orginize items faster, and lets you sell items faster. You save time. "I'm doing this game faster and more efficient than the guy next to me; I'm winning".

Is the circus in town today or something? Are we back to square one, the win argument again?

How hard can it be to understand that paying money for an advantage is p2w.

Lets not be morons.

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Phrazz wrote:

If you don't focus on "efficiency" and "pr hour", the tabs won't give you much benefits compared to the guy next to you. They are there for you to hoard items in. They are QoL. They won't take you closer to "winning".

If so, selling exalts for GGPoints would also be okay and totally not p2w. Great argument there buddy. Thumbs up.

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Phrazz wrote:

What I don't understand, is why people are unable to say "Oh, we're deisagreeing, we have different definitions of the abbreviation "P2W". Cool", instead of the "I AM RIGHT, YOU ARE WRONG - BECAUSE MY DEFINITION IS COOLER THAN YOURS".
It. Doesn't. Matter. If. YOU or I define it as "P2W" or not.

Oh please. Just because the GGG fanboys are running in full denial mode doesn't mean that they are actually right (or have the slightest point). Of course we disagree but that doesn't make you any less wrong. You have been proven wrong plenty of times. Do you even pause for one second to think about your lacking argument? No. You simply move on to the next stupid argument on your defend-GGG-list and when that failes, you start over at square one. Just lol.

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WhaleBusiness wrote:

You have been proven wrong

I have been proven wrong?

I just said that I'm on neither "side" here, and view tabs as a grey area between P2W and not P2W. You can use suppression techniques all you want, and do your best to define every person not agreeing with you as "stupid", something that makes you look more desperate than correct.

The only FACT here, is that there is no public, correct definition of "P2W". It's ALL subjective. You can view all people not sharing your definition as "stupid", but I don't view it as "stupid" if you don't consider the "advantage" you get from stash tabs contra what you get from mules as "P2W".

My tl;dr of this thread is:

true free to play players are actually playing the game on hardmode. Unless of course you picked a fotm build.

they have to make choices way more than the pay to qol in every single aspect of the game.

not only that sort of increases the difficulty by constantly having to make decisions whenever picking things or not but you also have to deal with the wonderful trade system.

glad that I finally understood the definition why people call this game "hard".. it's hard if you decide to don't give up to shady practices such as paying for QoL.

oh and if this law actually happens or not, it wont matter to GGG regardless.. there's always things you can come up with to run around the laws..

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Xystre wrote:

true free to play players

Is this a thing? "True free to play players"? You make it seem like "true free to play players" take pride in not paying. I like it. It's cute.

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Phrazz wrote:

The only FACT here, is that there is no public, correct definition of "P2W". It's ALL subjective. You can view all people not sharing your definition as "stupid", but I don't view it as "stupid" if you don't consider the "advantage" you get from stash tabs contra what you get from mules as "P2W".

That's a straw man and you know it. Everyone knows it. You attack the term itself because you lack any reasonable argument while anyone else with a peanut sized brain would agree that paying for an advantage is p2w.

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Xystre wrote:

true free to play players are actually playing the game on hardmode. Unless of course you picked a fotm build.

I think this relates a lot to the excessive defensive stance that some have. They are just too proud to admit that they have paid for an advantage. Makes sense.

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WhaleBusiness wrote:

That's a straw man and you know it. Everyone knows it. You attack the term itself because you lack any reasonable argument while anyone else with a peanut sized brain would agree that paying for an advantage is p2w.

"Peanut sized brain"? You can't handle people not agreeing with you without being arrogant?

It's not "straw man". This whole thread is about the definition. YOU are SOLELY discussing from YOUR (personal) definition. This is as much "straw man" as anything else. You even change the abbreviation from "win" to "advantage" to fit YOUR arguments.

But I understand it; if I would debate from a "everyone with other opinions than me has "peanut sized brains"-perspective, I would probably act as you. But I don't, because I can see it from two sides. You clearly can't. Good for you.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

WhaleBusiness wrote:

That's a straw man and you know it. Everyone knows it. You attack the term itself because you lack any reasonable argument while anyone else with a peanut sized brain would agree that paying for an advantage is p2w.

"Peanut sized brain"? You can't handle people not agreeing with you without being arrogant?

It's not "straw man". This whole thread is about the definition. YOU are SOLELY discussing from YOUR (personal) definition. This is as much "straw man" as anything else. You even change the abbreviation from "win" to "advantage" to fit YOUR arguments.

But I understand it; if I would debate from a "everyone with other opinions than me has "peanut sized brains"-perspective, I would probably act as you. But I don't, because I can see it from two sides. You clearly can't. Good for you.

I love posts like this, where in the process of trying to argue about definitions, he gets the definition of a common fallacy wrong. It brings a smile to my face. =)

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Phrazz wrote:

"Peanut sized brain"? You can't handle people not agreeing with you without being arrogant?

But it's true. Anyone with a peanut sized brain would agree that paying for an advantage is p2w. I even think you agree and know this but you rather prefer to pretend that stash tabs are not p2w for some reason.

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Phrazz wrote:

You even change the abbreviation from "win" to "advantage" to fit YOUR arguments.

There's the straw. Who says that terms are meant to be taken literally? Din't you know that p2w has a meaning other than the words themselves?

Would you call Chris a blatant lier for claiming that path of exile is designed to be played forever when the sun would clearly die before that? <- This is your straw argument that belongs in the kindergarten. Lets not be complete morons.

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Phrazz wrote:

But I understand it; if I would debate from a "everyone with other opinions than me has "peanut sized brains"-perspective, I would probably act as you. But I don't, because I can see it from two sides. You clearly can't. Good for you.

I can view a lot of things from another perspective but that doesn't mean that I can seriously view the subject from your perspective while still keeping a straight face. It's pure nonsense that is now back on square one, strawmanning the term while literally begging to meet you halfway because of disagreement.

Please. If you want to be taken seriously, please use your brain and think instead of running in auto-defend-GGG-mode. I could fall down to your level of idiocracy and claim the poe is not f2p because you need a computer to run it or that you can play it in captivity just fine. I digress.