Trade system

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Sotilis wrote:

Sorry but the current trading system works perfectly.
Your problem is with people and not with the trade itself.

You seemingly have no clue about economics or what the word 'perfect' means.

I'll get a bit more into detail:

A system which allows people to list item but then they are under no obligation to sell them is in itself a 'broken' system. We can see the effects clearly, depending on the state of the league some items are unavailable since a single person buys out the whole stock, sets it back in for a cheaper price and then basically scam people by buying their newly listed items under market value. 90% of the time those buyers are bots by the way.
A system which allows bots to access more data then a bot could in-game, then saying 'but with a implemented system bots would spread!' is actually the literally dumbest thing Chris ever wrote. His ideas (at the core at least) are usually very interesting... but this train of thought was just utter ridiculous garbage, showing he either doesn't understand how bots are made or work. An AH actually offers more safety for the game... and that's the options with the biggest influence for bots otherwise!

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Sotilis wrote:

So instead of trying to change the game you should change your hideout accordingly to avoid these sorts of problems.

Let's build an old arcade game machine where each button is a meter apart from each other!
Well, that doesn't work well, but here's the solution! Instead of building it properly, just run quickly from left to right, that will solve it!

You're sounding the same with this sentence.

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Sotilis wrote:

For a last attempt you can always make your hideout completely private, meaning no one can access it and you can simply just deal in the other player's hideout or in a public act.

Which is a hassle for many people since loading times over Steam are awful, as well as changing instances a very risky business. If the buyer disconnects you can write back after he comes back online... if you disconnect though, you're screwed and lost the trade 90% of the time.
Once again, great system we have in existence!

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Sotilis wrote:

So many solutions that doesn't need to change the game..

And each one you mentioned didn't take anything into consideration besides your own narrow field of view. Hence they were useless sadly.

What you firstly stated can be more easily done in an "offline AH" so your argument point is invalid.


Secondly, yes, you should work on your hideout if you want something. You don't just get handouts. If you want something then you do something for it. It's plain logic.

Lastly, just because you are driven by your emotions it doesn't mean the stuff I said are not solutions. You should learn that the word won't work the way AS YOU WANT.


:)

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Sotilis wrote:

Sorry but the current trading system works perfectly.

I guess it works perfectly if you want to piss players off and get them to leave.

I think the trade system needs to be totally redone but not for the same reason. My frustration is in the fact that sometimes you need to message 30 different people to buy items they have for sale. Early in the start of a new league it's easy being the buyer as people are hungry for alcs, chisels, and chaos. The more time rolls on the harder it is to get people to even respond with a "not now" "busy" or "it will be a few minutes" simply because even though they are offering the items for sale they do not want to be bothered to even go DND when they are mapping, crafting, among other things. So i just wish our gracious host here would just make a trade market that you have to place your items in, or in a certain tab "lord knows they like selling us tabs" then when a buyer wants an item he simply pays for it and the mentioned item comes out of the stash and they see the loot for it when they get the time. I know, I know some will argue that it's a social game and that being social is part of the game. But imho Being social is over rated when it comes to the trade system here. You spend 10 minutes getting someone to respond for a 10 second interaction that if you are lucky will end with a ty or a gl Just my thoughts :) have fun everyone.

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Recon3862 wrote:

My frustration is in the fact that sometimes you need to message 30 different people to buy items they have for sale. Early in the start of a new league it's easy being the buyer as people are hungry for alcs, chisels, and chaos. The more time rolls on the harder it is to get people to even respond with a "not now" "busy" or "it will be a few minutes" simply because even though they are offering the items for sale they do not want to be bothered to even go DND when they are mapping, crafting, among other things

That happened to me today. And a few days before I think. Messaged a bunch of people for a portal gem at various prices over the course of maybe 18 minutes with no response from anyone. Before I didn't try as much, because I know people don't like to be bothered for small trades THEY list themselves because logic. Maybe rngesus will bless me at some point.

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Recon3862 wrote:

I think the trade system needs to be totally redone but not for the same reason. My frustration is in the fact that sometimes you need to message 30 different people to buy items they have for sale. Early in the start of a new league it's easy being the buyer as people are hungry for alcs, chisels, and chaos. The more time rolls on the harder it is to get people to even respond with a "not now" "busy" or "it will be a few minutes" simply because even though they are offering the items for sale they do not want to be bothered to even go DND when they are mapping, crafting, among other things. So i just wish our gracious host here would just make a trade market that you have to place your items in, or in a certain tab "lord knows they like selling us tabs" then when a buyer wants an item he simply pays for it and the mentioned item comes out of the stash and they see the loot for it when they get the time. I know, I know some will argue that it's a social game and that being social is part of the game. But imho Being social is over rated when it comes to the trade system here. You spend 10 minutes getting someone to respond for a 10 second interaction that if you are lucky will end with a ty or a gl Just my thoughts :) have fun everyone.

Please read the trade manifesto for why a trade market (auction house) is not going to happen:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870

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Cyzax wrote:

Please read the trade manifesto for why a trade market (auction house) is not going to happen:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870

Still using the same lame argument in the trade manifesto...

Please let me explain how lame it is:

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Easy trade reduces the number of times a character improves their items.
People who are heavily engaged in trade perform fewer item upgrades to achieve their final build. They get there in fewer steps, because they can easily buy items that are close to what they need. Simply put, their character progression is more about trading than it is about getting items from monsters. We believe that it is more fun to slowly and iteratively upgrade a character over time and to have a longer journey to gear a character up. Knowing that a monster could drop something that improves your character is a great motivator for playing one more level!

The number of modifiers on rare items and the variety of uniques makes find an item for yourself close to impossible except perhaps for leveling equip that can be far from good and still useful

Everybody only searches items to sell and buy the ones he needs that's already the rule in this game

People heavily engaged in trade get better items because most of their currency comes from the market itself, buying low and selling high (often with price-fixing trick)

An AH will remove the price fixers and alow much more people buy and sell at fair rates and reduce the profit of players engaged in trade

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Easy trade means reducing drop rates
Compare two hypothetical games. In the first game, trade is very difficult. The majority of items that can't be used by your character are not traded to other people. In the second game, trade is very easy. Many of the items that you can't use are traded to other people for items that you can. In the second game, because of trade, you have a much higher acquisition rate of useful items. While that sounds great if you want instant gratification, in reality it means that the second game either receives reduced drop rates relative to the first, or ends up being a whole lot easier and less challenging to achieve goals in.

Really good high-end items always end up in the market and are only removed from the market when they become someone's final item, acquisition rates of these items will not change and top players would not see the game any easier tham it is now

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Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great
Both of the above points are even worse when you consider that the level of engagement with trade varies substantially from player to player. Most players who play Path of Exile never trade. Out of the players who do trade, most only complete a few trades in a league. The subset of players who regularly trade strongly overlaps with our core reddit and forum communities. Chances are, if you're reading this, then you're one of the top 10% of players in terms of engagement with advanced systems. The difference in magnitude of trading (and hence item acquisition and progress) between non/low-traders and heavy traders is gigantic. While a regular player would be lucky to accumulate a small handful of Exalted Orbs in a league, a trader might reach hundreds in the same timeframe. This enables them to fully-gear Shaper-capable characters while the non-trader is still in mid-tier maps or lower.

The significant differences in character power and player progression caused by trade has already created a situation where Path of Exile is very hard for some players and quite easy for others. Some people never stand a chance of seeing some of the Atlas of Worlds content, while others can rather quickly defeat it and are looking for new challenges. We're tentatively okay with the degree to which this occurs currently, but it would be much worse if trading were made substantially easier.

Most people don't trade or do it very rarely because trade is difficult and time-consuming. An easy trade would have exactly the opposite effect, alloying the average and the new players to enter the market reducing the difference between players

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Easy trade allows for greater abuse by automation
Another topic is automation. While we work hard to stamp out bots and abusive behavior, it would be hard to completely eliminate the damage caused by a few trade bots with access to a fast trade system. If they have the ability to search out and buy items without having to talk to another player, then there would be some very large-scale economic consequences that would not be good for regular players.

There're several ways to make bots useless in a trade environment. If they think a bit it's not difficult to find a solution

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CyberWizardB5 wrote:

Still using the same lame argument in the trade manifesto...

Given that the trade manifesto comes from the people with the most knowledge about the game, with full access to the code base, designs, intentions and any gathered statistics (trading or otherwise), meaning they have access to FAR more information than you have (by several magnitudes at least), it is by definition not 'lame' :-)

'Someone' might be making 'lame' arguments not based on facts and knowledge, but it is not GGG :-p

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Cyzax wrote:

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CyberWizardB5 wrote:

Still using the same lame argument in the trade manifesto...

Given that the trade manifesto comes from the people with the most knowledge about the game, with full access to the code base, designs, intentions and any gathered statistics (trading or otherwise), meaning they have access to FAR more information than you have (by several magnitudes at least), it is by definition not 'lame' :-)

'Someone' might be making 'lame' arguments not based on facts and knowledge, but it is not GGG :-p

Did you ever read the trade manifesto yourself? There's not a single fact knowledge or statistic behind that cheap ideology
Instead of treating GGG developers as "gods that can't ever be mistaken" why don't you present yourself any fact knowledge or statistic to make a base to that lame theory?

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CyberWizardB5 wrote:

Did you ever read the trade manifesto yourself? There's not a single fact knowledge or statistic behind that cheap ideology

Actually, for anyone who understands basic economics, it makes perfect sense.
In any system with unlimited supply, lack of demand will cause the economy to collapse... unless you restrict it artificially (ref. the current trade system).

Basic Economy 101...