General Gem Discussion

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Amongalen wrote:
A quick feedback regarding vaal skill descriptions. Currently skill tags for vaal and normal skill versions are displayed together. Because of that it might be a bit misleading because some of them apply to one version but not to the other. For example:
I've tested it with a vaal discipline. It has a duration tag while the normal version of the skill doesnt. I've wanted to make my vaal discipline last longer so I've linked it with increased duration support. However, I've been kinda scared because that should affect my normal discipline (with 140% mana cost multiplier) as it got duration tag now as well. Turns out the base discipline doesn't have duration tag so it doesn't affect it evne tho it says something else on the gem.


Gems have tags, skills don't have tags. It does not make sense for the skill to show any tags, because tags are a property of the gem it comes from, not of the skill.

Tags don't determine what can support what, the properties of the skill do. Discipline does not have a duration, thus it can't be supported by Increased Duration. On the other hand, Vaal Discipline has a duration, thus it can be supported by the support.

"
What would happen if I'd put vaal discipline in a "+1 duration gem levels" item or a "+1 vaal gem levels" items? Would that affect both my base discipline and vaal one? Maybe just vaal version would be affected because behind the scene they have separate lvls and base version doens't have appropriate tag? Or maybe it wouldn't affect neither because level is assigned to the base version and it doesn't have a "duration"/"vaal" tag? I'm pretty sure both version would be affected but still, the system is a bit counterintuitive.


The skill gem has the "duration" and "vaal" tags, thus the level of the skill gem would be raised by both modifiers. The gem would then in turn provide a higher level of both skills.
Last edited by Abdiel_Kavash on Jun 9, 2018, 12:39:16 PM
Love the new Vaal mechanics, it feels much better knowing I'll get a few uses against bosses regardless of other enemies in the area!
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Abdiel_Kavash wrote:
"
Amongalen wrote:
A quick feedback regarding vaal skill descriptions. Currently skill tags for vaal and normal skill versions are displayed together. Because of that it might be a bit misleading because some of them apply to one version but not to the other. For example:
I've tested it with a vaal discipline. It has a duration tag while the normal version of the skill doesnt. I've wanted to make my vaal discipline last longer so I've linked it with increased duration support. However, I've been kinda scared because that should affect my normal discipline (with 140% mana cost multiplier) as it got duration tag now as well. Turns out the base discipline doesn't have duration tag so it doesn't affect it evne tho it says something else on the gem.


Gems have tags, skills don't have tags. It does not make sense for the skill to show any tags, because tags are a property of the gem it comes from, not of the skill.

Tags don't determine what can support what, the properties of the skill do. Discipline does not have a duration, thus it can't be supported by Increased Duration. On the other hand, Vaal Discipline has a duration, thus it can be supported by the support.

"
What would happen if I'd put vaal discipline in a "+1 duration gem levels" item or a "+1 vaal gem levels" items? Would that affect both my base discipline and vaal one? Maybe just vaal version would be affected because behind the scene they have separate lvls and base version doens't have appropriate tag? Or maybe it wouldn't affect neither because level is assigned to the base version and it doesn't have a "duration"/"vaal" tag? I'm pretty sure both version would be affected but still, the system is a bit counterintuitive.


The skill gem has the "duration" and "vaal" tags, thus the level of the skill gem would be raised by both modifiers. The gem would then in turn provide a higher level of both skills.

You're right, let's just remove all the skill descriptions since they are just a waste of space and extra work, and don't actually provide the necessary information about the skill.

I think GGG needs to rethink their "Valued poster" criteria.
Last edited by VeryMelon on Jul 4, 2018, 9:10:27 AM
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VeryMelon wrote:
You're right, let's just remove all the skill descriptions since they are just a waste of space and extra work, and don't actually provide the necessary information about the skill.


I'm not sure whether this was addressed at me or my response specifically; but in any case: Skills have descriptions to, well, describe what the skill does. This lets the player know what properties the skill has (such as which type of damage it deals, how many targets it hits, or whether it has a duration); which in turn affects which support gems and modifiers can affect the skill.

Skill gems have tags to organize them into groups. This is used by the game primarily for "+X to level of socketed (tag) gems" modifiers. Some tags also give insight into the properties of the skill, such as saying which skills are curses. But other modifiers can change these properties: for example, you can turn a curse into an aura using the Blasphemy support gem. This does not change the tags of the active skill gem, only the properties of the skill itself.

Mark_GGG gives a more detailed explanation in this Reddit post.

In the end, both the tags of a skill gem and the description of a skill offer valuable information, and they each serve a different purpose. Both are necessary for understanding the game mechanics, but neither can completely fill the role of the other.

"
I think GGG needs to rethink their "Valued poster" criteria.


That is something you would have to talk to support directly about. I don't believe there are any hard rules for the Valued Poster program. Players are nominated for the program either by the community or by GGG staff, and it is up to GGG to accept the nomination.

If you have any issues with my posts in particular, don't hesitate to contact me via a private message. We're all humans, nobody is perfect. We all strive to improve ourselves and the world around us. If your feedback can help me towards that goal, I would be more than happy to hear it.
Last edited by Abdiel_Kavash on Jul 4, 2018, 9:54:36 AM
Need a reverse movement skill, preferably an ranged attack, like this -

Heavy Shot
(a main str, minor dex gem)

Attack, projectile

Fire a piercing projectile, and push you backwards. The closer to the first enemy it hits, the more distance it pushes you.

50% reduced attack speed
Deals (100% - 180%) damage
Projectile pierces (2-4) targets
Base distance is 5
200% increased distance at Point Blank
Two-handed - Mop
Dual Wield - Slippers
One-handed & Shield (close combat) - Brush & Basin
One-handed & Shield (ranged) - Hair Dryer & Mirror
Main-hand & Off-hand (evil witch) - Sponge & Soap
Was wondering will sweep ever get some love? I love that double strike received a nice buff but sweep deserves one as well. At least a vaal version and maybe remove the 10% reduce attack speed? Right now I am playing sweep the damage is definitely lacking. I am using the cauterizer on a 5l and the damage is decent.
Last edited by Boon_Is_Here on Aug 1, 2018, 8:56:12 AM
I was wrong
Last edited by sasori962009 on Aug 7, 2018, 4:17:41 AM
Will there be some love for Ice Spear?

I was extremely excited about the announcement regarding the rework of the skill before Incursion but nothing seems to have happened since then and none of the 'Unannounced' skill gem icons for Delve seem to resemble Ice Spear. :(

Since the respective feedback thread doesn't allow me to post anymore for some reason, i'll post some thought in here instead:


In the current state of the game there doesn't really seem to be a place for the skill in its original design. Hordes of fast monsters, many of which have leaping or charging skills, freeze duration not longer being affected by critical strike multiplier and in general high freeze resistance on most stronger bosses mean that the strenths of the second form will rarely apply where it matters.
Therefore I believe that a mere numerical change won't do much good for the skill itself and a more extensive rework of its mechanics would be more appropriate instead.


Here are some ideas for said rework:
* apply the crit chance increase to both forms, making the first one less useless in the current state of the game

* add knockback to the first and a slight AoE to the second form

* add slight homing capabilities

* change the chill duration modifier to chill+freeze duration

* add some cold penetration to critical strikes with this skill (for example 10-19% @ lvl 1-20)

* increase the cast speed to reduce the wind-up time of the skill and therefore increase the chance for the 2nd form to hit an enemy charging the caster


While these changes still wouldn't make it a top-tier clearing skill, I believe that they would help greatly in resoring some of its original role: a strong boss killer.
11.02.2013 - 11.02.2017: four year PoE anniversary!
Last edited by vargorn on Aug 9, 2018, 6:35:15 PM
Suggested new skill - Colorful Spray

Colorful Spray
spell, fire, cold, lightning, chaos, physical, aether, projectile, aoe

50% chance to fire a projectile that deals 200-300 fire damage and 20% chance to ignite
50% chance to fire a projectile that deals 150-250 cold damage and 20% chance to freeze
50% chance to fire a projectile that deals 50-500 lightning damage and 20% chance to shock
30% chance to fire a projectile that deals 250-500 chaos damage and 20% life leech
30% chance to fire a projectile that deals 300-400 physical damage and 20% chance to bleed
1% chance to fire a projectile that deals 5000 aether damage and reduces target life by 10%

extra projectiles fired have a triangle of degree
increases in projectile numbers are converted to additional rolls
Two-handed - Mop
Dual Wield - Slippers
One-handed & Shield (close combat) - Brush & Basin
One-handed & Shield (ranged) - Hair Dryer & Mirror
Main-hand & Off-hand (evil witch) - Sponge & Soap
Last edited by Heartsease on Aug 17, 2018, 10:12:20 PM
Slow melee skill gems - attackspeed capped, requires two hand sword axe or mace
Applys heavy bleed and converts 20% of bleed damage into chaos

Maximum health gem - this gem has no effect unless 4 linked. Life leech and regeneration has no effect. Flasks heal less. Str requirement increased to prevent dual health and energy shield builds.

Cast on crit/kill - separate skills rather than having to link gems to it.




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