Witch - [3.6] The Blizz Sorc - Icestorm/Winter Orb CI Occultist - Viable For Everything - Forum

" Solax wrote: " Laraléy wrote: Heya, so far enjoying this build, just having one struggle which are elem reflect maps. Is it just not possible to do it with this set up or am I doing something wrong? The only thing I haven't been able to get is 5L on my chest so I don't run blind. Thanks The unique ring Sybil's Lament + minor pantheon Yugul + Sapphire Flask are your best bet against ele reflect maps. If stacking those 3 things don't keep you from dying, then you're bum outta luck :/ Alright, thank you. I've used the flask and pantheon, but I haven't tried the ring, so I'll give it a try. Not sure if that will be enough, since I just nearly one shot myself in low tier maps, but thanks for the tip. Last edited by Laraléy on Dec 28, 2018, 7:56:52 PM	Posted by Laraléy on Dec 28, 2018, 7:56:35 PM Quote this Post
" Laraléy wrote: Heya, so far enjoying this build, just having one struggle which are elem reflect maps. Is it just not possible to do it with this set up or am I doing something wrong? The only thing I haven't been able to get is 5L on my chest so I don't run blind. Thanks With Yugul, Sybil's, and a Sapphire Flask (and an ES on hit Watcher's Eye) I've been able to run Ele Reflect maps when necessary by sticking to just using a Spell Cascade setup with a LL gem (to keep damage per hit way down) and not casting on big packs too many times (our ES regen does have a limit). It's not super fast (I feel like it's even slower than Temp Chains...) but it can be done. You could stack even more Reduced Reflected Elemental Damage (Watcher's Eye on Purity of Elements, Shaper Rings, Essence of Insanity) if you wanted to do it more quickly, I suppose. Last edited by vector84 on Dec 28, 2018, 8:04:26 PM	Posted by vector84 on Dec 28, 2018, 8:01:36 PM Quote this Post
I'm using the watcher's eye setup personally. Along with Sibyl's lament and Yugul pantheon I have essentially 100% ele reflect immunity. Just need to fit that aura somewhere, which might not be an easy task depending on setup. ^^ Last edited by Lirhtim on Dec 28, 2018, 8:25:33 PM	Posted by Lirhtim on Dec 28, 2018, 8:21:07 PM Quote this Post
Thanks all for the tips, I'll try Sibyl's and Watcher's eye and see how that goes.	Posted by Laraléy on Dec 28, 2018, 8:35:01 PM Quote this Post
Hey, just wanted to ask - what tooltip "average dmg" is consiered "good" to go for shaper/elder/ubers? Atm I have 13.5k shields and 4.6k avg hit in ho without EO up.	Posted by sufferot on Dec 29, 2018, 7:55:57 AM Quote this Post
Sorry for the long post, I just want to explain myself a little further. " Med1umentor wrote: Welp, i guess i should answer one by one: 1) We already use blind in our CwDT-ball lightning setup, so bosses permanently blinded anyway. It was so couple of years already, and you should know it, if you actually read the guide. It's also easier to acquire, than good shaped gloves. 2) Vaal pact is worth it. 100% so. There is some people who didn't like it, cause "no regen" isn't for anyone. But it's just preferences, if you remove such nonsense and just look at it from the "game mechanic side of view", VP is superior until you can get regen to about 15-20%, which would be costly in more ways than one. Just sorrow of divine isn't going to cut it, for tanking something that you was supposed to tank like dangerous mod guardians, or shaper's beam etc 3) I guess it's doable now, when we don't use avatar of fire, but you really underestimating power of "flat int", and especially "% increased attributes". I checked in PoB, vaal regalia 500 ES with crafted "% attributes" (which now easily attainable without even "shaper base") and some int, have only 1% less damage than incadescent heart, and about 2k ES more which is HUGE. And the worse your other gear is, the worse it feels. If we are talking about proper shaper's base vaal reagalia with 12% attributes, it crush incandescent heart with flying colors. And no, rather than having -25% elemental damage, i would rather have 25% more ES (which is exactly how much we sacrifing with that switch). And it works only with hits. I guess it's not a bad option, if you don't have money at all, but at 70 lvl, at this point i would rather go into vaal regalia route. Also, you can probably snatch additional resists on it. 4) We already have more than enough duration through skill tree and int stacking. Even that already is quite questionable, some people even removing those at some point. No way it worth "% int", but as "not useless corruption" it can get passing mark. 5) Chilling ground is still just a chilling ground. It have only 10% slow from chill. It's good enough to proc hypothermia, but not good enough for actual "chill". If you are not linking damage gem to winter orb, there is no way it actually have enough to help you to freeze/shatter stuff good enough, so it's not an option too. More damage - yeah, but that occultist version design was all about "additional survivability through occultist defenses+chill, for the expenses of damage". 1) You're right, that setup is easier to aquire, but since the blind mod on gloves isn't that popular, these gloves are quite cheap aswell. You don't need a 5L only for cursing 1 curse and blind and can use the spare socket for vaal rf or vaal lightning trap + it's arguably more reliable. 2) To discuss this from the "game mechanic side of view", let there be 2 examples: Both characters do have 10k ES and hit a single target 50 times per second (after about 6 seconds with conc effect (~28% of Hits connect to a Humanoid target)). Both use Arakaali and the ES on hit Watcher's eye. 1. Character has VP and gets 6k ES/second from Leech (20% of max ES * 2 * 1,5) and 2,25k ES/second (50 * 30 * 1,5) from ESoH. = 8,25k ES/second 2. Character don't has VP and gets 3k ES/second from Leech (20% of max ES * 1,5), 0,75k ES/second from Sorrow of the Divine (5% of max ES * 1,5) and 2,25k ES/second from ESoH. = 6k ES/second. Shaper beam only does 4k DPS only counting in 75% resistances. The VP setup grants only about 37,5% More ES/second (we reach the leech cap super quick anyway so im not counting in leechrate) for the investment of alot of passive points and the clunkyness of having to swap Blood Rage in and out (like in immunity phases) or TP to your Hideout from time to time. This number shifts ofc if the target moves out of the AoE...what rarely happens since we're facetanking. Most bosses even give you enough time before the fight to ramp up (Elder Guardians, Uber Elder) " vector84 wrote: So looking over your setup... I'm confused about the presence of an Arakaali setup (CWDT+BR+IC). In your setup, wouldn't Arakaali only apply to the ES recovery granted by your flasks (Atziri+Sorrow)? Which means even in an ideal scenario your Arakaali procs are only adding like 600 ES/sec? I feel like I would want to just drop Blood Rage entirely at that point? Then you could work around having Wicked Ward up more often, or something like that? Having said that, seems to me that Vaal Pact setups are still recovering ES at nearly twice the rate you do under full flask effect... seems pretty worth it to me if your aspirations are to face tank most things... I tried to work out a Zealot's Oath based variant before they nerfed Mastermind, but it always seemed to me like it would lose too much. The above should clearify this. IMO VP is overrated atleast if you have to path so far for it and if you have other sources of sustain like ESoH, Regen or high damage mitigation. Im leaving out 3) and 4) because that seems to highly depend on your other gear. In my setup your 500 ES 12% increased Int Chest would only add 15% more ES, 2,5% less Damage, 33% more damage taken from elemental damage hits and the need of another source of Life Leech...for the cost of atleast 2 ex. 5) It's actually much more than 10% with all the increased chill effect and I doubt you are chilling endgame bosses with the rather small Icestorm hits for more than that...if they are not getting chilled by AA anyway.. 4L WO (WO+CWC+HYPO+Efficacy) seems to be enough to reliably freeze trash at t15 maps.	Posted by Powerlenny on Dec 29, 2018, 8:07:18 AM Quote this Post
" Powerlenny wrote: 1. Character has VP and gets 6k ES/second from Leech (20% of max ES * 2 * 1,5) and 2,25k ES/second (50 * 30 * 1,5) from ESoH. = 8,25k ES/second 2. Character don't has VP and gets 3k ES/second from Leech (20% of max ES * 1,5), 0,75k ES/second from Sorrow of the Divine (5% of max ES * 1,5) and 2,25k ES/second from ESoH. = 6k ES/second. Like I just said in my previous post, ES Recovery Rate does NOT apply to ESoH. So again, since you totally ignored the content of my post, why even bother with Arakaali? 300 degen from Blood Rage constantly vs conditional 600 regen from Arakaali seems really inefficient. You're also ignoring the change in leech pool size, but w/e, let's ignore that for now. (which brings it to more like 9k vs 5k... like I said, about half) Last edited by vector84 on Dec 29, 2018, 1:36:22 PM	Posted by vector84 on Dec 29, 2018, 12:54:53 PM Quote this Post
Didn't know that Arakaali doesnt apply to ESoH, i thought you didnt see that im using this watchers eye mod. So my calculations are wrong and rather like this: 1. Character has VP and gets 6k ES/second from Leech (20% of max ES * 2 * 1,5) and 1,5k ES/second (50 * 30) from ESoH. = 7,5k ES/second 2. Character doesn't have VP and gets 3k ES/second from Leech (20% of max ES * 1,5), 0,9k ES/second from Sorrow of the Divine (6% of max ES * 1,5) and 1,5k ES/second from ESoH. = 5,4k ES/second. VP Version is still only 39% more ES/second. And with every additional Target it gets less. Like in tough syndicate encounters. I guess by leech pool you mean maximum life leech rate? which I in fact didnt ignore and you should see that. So why even bother with Arakaali? Even without VP, if you take 2. Character from above and cut out Arakaali it's a loss from 3,9k ES/second to 2,6k ES/second. So in my setup it will (since I'm not at 10k ES but soon) still grant 1,3k/ES second.	Posted by Powerlenny on Dec 29, 2018, 1:38:47 PM Quote this Post
The problem with ignoring the leech pool change is that changes don't happen in a vacuum and the pathing to Vaal Pact in this build is actually highly efficient due to the use of Fertile Mind jewels (and the fact that Int scales everything for this build and is the most efficient thing to invest in, at least up to around 1800 int). And your napkin math is fuzzy - using PoB on your profile: 1539 leech cap + 462 regen = 2001 ES/sec * 0.5 (Arakaali) - 308 (Blood Rage) = 692.5 ES/sec I too feel like there would be a huge QoL boost leaving behind Vaal Pact and Arakaali (because Blood Rage breaks Wicked Ward), but it just looks like it takes such huge losses across the board to do so... so when I do need that QoL, I just take off Blood Rage, because Vaal Pact isn't the real problem maker here imo. And with just Vaal Pact and no Arakaali sustain is going to be similar to your setup, but with the added ability to proc Wicked Ward and get back to near VP+Arakaali levels of sustain with much better QoL. PS: We're not even accounting for the fact that Int also scales the sustain from ESoH quite significantly due to increasing Icestorm duration (4.5s vs 7s is 56% more ES/sec from ESoH). Last edited by vector84 on Dec 29, 2018, 2:28:45 PM	Posted by vector84 on Dec 29, 2018, 1:57:38 PM Quote this Post
" vector84 wrote: The problem with ignoring the leech pool change is that changes don't happen in a vacuum and the pathing to Vaal Pact in this build is actually highly efficient due to the use of Fertile Mind jewels (and the fact that Int scales everything for this build and is the most efficient thing to invest in, at least up to around 1800 int). And your napkin math is fuzzy - using PoB on your profile: 1539 leech cap + 462 regen = 2001 ES/sec * 0.5 (Arakaali) - 308 (Blood Rage) = 700 ES/sec First of all, my character isn't finished. Thats the reason I made up an example with 10k ES. Using your math leads to the same numbers, i just didnt take the degen into account. 2000 leech cap + 600 regen = 2600 ES/sec, 2600 * 0,5 =1300 ES/sec. -400 ES/sec = 900 ES/sec gain due to Arakaali. Still worth it IMO. + Blood Rage adds 12% more damage with frenzy charges and without VP theres not that much loss of QoL. If I put my current tree with completed but realistic gear into PoB and change it to reach Vaal Pact (with fertile minds and the 30 int node), the character has a little bit less ES and almost 15% less Damage. In the end it comes down to personal preference it seems. In neither version the build is lacking damage/survivability. I might try a version with VP but without BR/Arakaali, could be a better decision than BR/arakaali without VP for the sake of QoL	Posted by Powerlenny on Dec 29, 2018, 2:40:01 PM Quote this Post