{3.10} Speaker for the Dead | The Mass Minion Summoner | League Starter, Leveling Guide 💀

@ everyone:
I am about finished up with the Patch Notes analysis. All I have left is to write up the differences with the new Zombie, and then summarize the overall results.

For 3.9, the same 3.8 build can be used. The main difference will be the helm and weapon, since we do not know how rare Influenced gear will be nor what the mod pool is for Conqueror rares.

Build Variants:
Charity Triad (@ Kirian42): https://pastebin.com/PPyZcTdM
2H Triad (@ thegamingkage): https://pastebin.com/GfQUPN8T

(Note: Triad Grip gloves were a pretty common drop during Blight (I found 5). How rare it'll be now that Blight only shows up 10% of the time remains to be seen. These gloves may end up being either super cheap or expensive. EDIT: My mistake, apparently Triad Grip is a core unique, not a league unique, so it can thankfully drop anywhere. I was hesitant to officially promote the Triad variant for this reason, so I'm relieved to have cleared this up.)

I will be using page 234 to rewrite the guide. The original build will be preserved here.




Random Interesting/Useful Links

NeverSink Item Filter 7.5 (subscribe to filter)
Datamined 3.9 info
Streamer Starter Builds Compilation
GGG Dev AMA
LocalIdentity's PoB Fork
Mark_GGG's List of Nova Spells (new Astral Projector ring)
Fan Art: Necro vs Elder
Fan Art: Conquerors of The Atlas
Sources of Reduced Damage Taken GoogleDoc
3.9 SSF Guide
Syndicate Guide
Earning Currency from Prophecies Guide
Gem Finder Tool (about)
PyPoE Program: Extract files from PoE.
Fmod Bank Program: Convert PoE audio.
Hidden Audio for Successfully Rescuing Act 6 Nessa
Exile Voice Actors (comedy skit with Witch's voice actor)
PoE Lore - Illustrated Edition
PoeDB Model Viewer




@ Kirian42:
Full Posts & Proceeding Conversation
"
Kirian42 wrote:
As someone said in the Reddit patch notes thread, this is a massacre, but I think that's going to be true for *every* build.

You mention several different variants in your analysis. Is there a list of the variants people have been using? I assume, for instance, that when you say Charity Triad you're talking about the build I was using (1H with Victario's, Triad Grip with 4x green) but I'm not sure.

Edit: In particular, I think the Spectre nerf is huge and terrible. Either have to have Empower, or socket in a +2 to Minion gems helmet, or have some of source of +Level to gems.
"
WeaponizedSP wrote:
This absolutely did not get massacred.

Losing one spectre won't hurt very much at all. I played it in 3.8 and by accident I didn't notice that I never maxed my spectre's out until like a week after I was farming endgame content. When I got the last spectre out I noticed literally no difference in clear speed.

The nerf to zombies is the biggest nerf to this build in 3.9. QOL/clear speed nerf due to the minions being slower sucks too and will be annoying but not build-breaking by any means.
"
IchiMorghulis wrote:
Same here, on learning of the Spectre nerf, I fired up a t16 and ran it with 3 Spectres. I cannot tell the difference. The move speed may slow us down a little but you can make up for most of it with minion move speed on your jewelry.
"
Kirian42 wrote:
Cool, it seems like losing a Spectre isn't too bad then.

If we go with Host Chieftain/Carnage Chieftain for charges and drop Victario's and Necro Aegis... would Queen's Decree/Escape (to make up for lost minion speed) or Femurs of the Saints (for the +2 level, so we have the 2 Chieftains and still 2 Frost Sentinels) be things to consider? Since multicraft is kinda dead, and we're not getting bonus links from affixes any longer, it seems like a unique might be the way to go.
"
Is there a list of the variants people have been using?

  • 1. Original Build: Herald of Agony, Poison from Ball Lightning, Life + Acrobatics, Charged Dash + Shield Charge OR Cyclone (or Blade Flurry) + Flame Dash.
    Sub-variant: Aul's Uprising (free Hatred) + Discipline w/ ES on Hit Watcher's Eye, Life + ES, Glorious Vanity + LGoSH.

  • 2. 3.8 Build / ES Hybrid / Elder Lich: Discipline, ES on Hit Watcher's Eye w/ Ball Lightning, Life + ES, Fortify boots.
    Sub-variant 1: Glorious Vanity + LGoSH.
    Sub-variant 2: CwC Spirit Offering.
    Sub-variant 3: The Stampede boots.
    Sub-variant 4: Spectre specialist, no Phantasms, Slave Drivers/Goatman Fire-raisers/(other).
    Sub-variant 5: Arakaali's Fang dagger.

  • 3. Cold Triad / Charity Triad / Shadow Reaper: Skitterbots + Bonechill, Necromantic Aegis, Storm Brand for EE, 4G = Phase Run/Smoke Mine/Whirling Blades+Faster Attacks, Life + ES.
    Sub-variant: 2H Maim mace, Chieftain Spectres, Carrion Golem clear.

  • 4. Gravelord: CwC Raging Spirits. Not efficient, just for the fun of a huge max-minion army. Arakaali's Fang, Animate Weapon + Spell Totem, etc.


"
Queen's Decree/Escape ... Femurs of the Saints

It's an option for the worst case scenario. I'm waiting to see the new mod pool and the rarity of Influenced gear.

Frenzy Charges are worth 37% more damage for our entire army. Power Charges with a Kingmaker AG in tow are another 24% more. Together they can add 70% more damage, plus the utility of 15% movement speed and another 30% chance to freeze. Losing them by dropping Victario's Charity for a 2H is something I'd like to avoid.

Chieftains are an alternative solution, but Spectres are one of our best clear options with Unending Hunger.

A 2H also consumes a 3L.


Between Decree vs. Femur:
40% minion life vs. 40% minion damage
+1 max Zom/Ske/Spec vs. +2 minion gems
100% minion movement (clear) vs. ~30% block, ~6% life regen (defense)

Going from L23 to L25 = +1 Zombie, +1 Skeleton (& +1 Vaal Warrior & +1 Vaal Mage), or +1 Spectre. So depending on what you socket into Femur, you can gain the same benefit as Decree along with ~21% more damage and life for it.

Movement speed is only super important for our Zombies. Spectres and Phantasms have range, Skeletons can have Dash and be summoned on top of targets. So the value here depends on how heavily you lean on Zombies.




@ Dashbb:
Full Post & Previous Conversation
"
Hercanic wrote:
I could have sworn I remember seeing Death Bishops and other variations had a 10sec cooldown on casting their curse, but I'm not finding it on PoeDB anymore, so I'll have to test to verify.

The nice thing about the Death Bishop, though, is his curse offers 20% chance to freeze, which is more than the 14% of a L20 Frostbite (10% @L5).

Since your Animated Guardian already curses with Elemental Weakness, you'll just be replacing each other's curses if you try to use Frostbite as well. To apply two curses from separate sources, the Animated Guardian would need a chest with "additional curse" crafted, and you'd also need a source of +1 curse if using the CoH ring. The game uses the curse limit of whoever curses last, so you both need to have a limit of 2 to avoid overwriting each other. You might be able to make it work with only +1 curse on the AG if you curse and then hold off, allowing the AG to be the last to have cursed and therefore using his limit. The Death Bishop would be no good, since there's currently no way to increase its curse limit (NA could do it if we ever get a +1 curse shield, or Umbilicus Immortalis if we ever get a +1 curse flask).

Nice, looks good! Only thing missing was quality on the helmet for a tiny bit more ES and regen. =o)
"
Dashbb wrote:
Before I got the AG I was going to anoint whispers of doom and use triad grip with CoH alongside the ring but I never got around to it.

Also, I don't know how reliable the CoH from the AG actually is and I know I don't always have my own curse up. I figured if I was throwing money at the AG items I might as well get CoH Gloves too. Both curses should give around the same amount of -cold res & the only difference being the chance to freeze from frostbite. I guess now losing the extra Spectre, Death Bishop really isn't a good choice anyway.

Just to add on to the AG part, I don't think I ever saw his health go down at all so as it turns out, regening over half his hp bar per second is pretty effective at keeping him alive.

"
Hercanic wrote:
Good to know. Would it trouble you to ask if you could record clearing a high-end map?

Unfortunately, I have not been able to test it myself (my fault; I still have not gotten back to those, such as yourself, who offered donations). My prediction for clear speed is that without true ranged minions, the build will suffer to some extent when encountering pits and cliffs.
"
Dashbb wrote:
If you want to use it then go for it!

All my gear is in a stash tab somewhere & I wasn't planning on playing PoE again until next league. I'd be happy to jump on and pass it all over to you if you wanted though.
"
I don't know how reliable the CoH from the AG actually is

Animated Guardian curses would mainly be for bosses and anything tough enough for the AG to have time to run up to and whack.


"
If you want to use [the video] then go for it!

Thanks! =oD


"
All my gear is in a stash tab somewhere & I wasn't planning on playing PoE again until next league. I'd be happy to jump on and pass it all over to you if you wanted though.

Absolutely, I would love to do some comparison tests, record videos, and keep it equipped on a character for display for the guide. However, are you sure? I imagine the Maim mace will retain a nice value on Standard going forward.
Last edited by Hercanic on Dec 21, 2019, 2:28:06 PM
"
Hercanic wrote:
@ everyone:
Blight League has ended. I would like to continue the Cenotaph's Top 5 awards, but it has become trickier to determine who among the ladder was playing one of the several variations of this build or just something coincidentally similar. Here are the search parameters I'm thinking of using. If anyone doesn't fit under this, let me know!


I opted out of cyclone on my build. I understand what it brings to the build, but didn't like the -30% move speed. It caused me too much grief in t15+ maps, and was unusable in uber elder. I also opted out of EE, as I wasnt using ball lightning to proc it with cyclone. My damage was more than enough for everything without it.
My tankiness was pretty gimped, tho, without the benefits from cyclone. I also went with dream fragment, to be chill/freeze immune. I made a few changes to your build, but started out with using everything the guide suggested.

The only problems I had with the modified version of your build was surviving UE beam of death, Elder's icicle shots, and maze of the minotaur boss. Those gave me alot of grief, and killed me many times.
Last edited by Ysonoko on Dec 12, 2019, 10:48:44 AM
Awesome, thanks for the updates. Will be playing this to start the new league!
All my other planned league starters seem pretty popular and I haven't seen that many people say they'll be playing minions. I don't usually play the same build twice but I figured I might as well come back to this since the changes don't look that bad. Boss League with unchanged skellies should go down well.

Hopefully now that there's less people playing with spectres Unending Hunger won't be 1 ex at league start again. Losing the extra spectre with sentinels shouldn't matter with one of these socketed.

Since this will be my second time playing a minion build, what are your thoughts on early league items now after the changes? I'm thinking of trying to get a Queen's Escape early on as they seemed to be pretty cheap to buy at the start of last league, or even doing the Prophecy instead. It makes up for all the movement speed lost from the nerfs and gives back the spectre too. Obviously much lower damage but for early on in the league it shouldn't make a difference.



Unless I'm missing something, Triad Grip are not a league specific drop. I got a pair of Phoenix last league so their drop rate should stay the same. Either way, with less people playing summoners they should still be very cheap.
Hail Necromancer,

Please accept this mere piece of my soul, in exchange for your teachings.


I'm about to try this build in the upcoming league, and read somewhere that an alternative-build was using Cyclone+CwC+Desecrate+Spirit_Offering with the Stampede unique boots, and I liked the idea!

Did you list somewhere a link to a discussion about this alternative, by any chance ? I'd like to learn more about the changes this player made to the Speaker for the Dead build.
"
Amnexty wrote:
Hail Necromancer,

Please accept this mere piece of my soul, in exchange for your teachings.


I'm about to try this build in the upcoming league, and read somewhere that an alternative-build was using Cyclone+CwC+Desecrate+Spirit_Offering with the Stampede unique boots, and I liked the idea!

Did you list somewhere a link to a discussion about this alternative, by any chance ? I'd like to learn more about the changes this player made to the Speaker for the Dead build.


I don't know which pages the discussion was on, but Cyclone+CwC+Desecrate+Spirit_Offering is a very solid defensive set up.

The Stampede actually isn't very good. With decent boots + flasks up we can easily beat 150% movement speed. The boots also don't provide anything else for us other than a bit of energy shield. With some rare boots we can get life, movement speed, resistances, energy shield, attack or spell dodge (nerfed in 3.9) and possibly even some strength or dexterity. On top of this, The Stampede are a blight league unique which means they'll be much harder to find in this league.
METAMORPH LEVELING

Act 1 complete.

1. Zombie Slam is pretty damn slow after the nerf.

2. Holy Relic life regen is great as always. Holy Relic area looks like it might have been stealth-nerfed. I could just be too used to its endgame radius, so take this with a grain of salt, but it seems smaller from what I remember.

3. The very first Metamorph's Firestorm is absolutely brutal for Zombies. Otherwise, Metamorphs haven't been too bad so far.

4. Smite with Ancestral Call still feels damn good this early.

5. Helm and gloves are the best places for sockets. We don't care what item this is, and we don't need to replace them often. In contrast, the weapon will be changed frequently, and boots will be upgraded whenever we can get more movement speed, so only use the sockets on these items if you have to. Ignore the chest slot, so you don't receive a movement penalty, and use a 3% movement shield (or dual wield) to nullify the shield movement penalty.

6. Don't forget to rush to the Practical Applications notable on the tree for the STR. Also, the Arcane Will notable pretty much removes the need for a mana flask.

Gear and Tree



Last edited by Hercanic on Dec 13, 2019, 6:21:27 PM
METAMORPH LEVELING

Act 2 complete.

Gear and Tree



I'm 58 now still wearing trash and the build is still flying through content at light speed. Smooth leveling experience.
METAMORPH LEVELING

Act 3 complete.

Gear and Tree



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