for everyone who wants a challange

"

Fruz wrote:

It's like saying "getting to level 80...

100% agree, these ppl logic is so flaved, based on made up assumptions. They say lvl 100 is ONLY about the time, while only thing they want is to get there so bad xD but its just not possible with casual approach no matter what.

They need to understand one thing: "Getting to high lvl is not a casual friendly goal" Deal with it ffs.

@ghoulavenger: I would really like to see person who actually made lvl 100 without steping on maps. You are making arguments based on total BS.

@vmt80: let me tell all of you wanting that that XP gain time penalty system. I would make this system to stack and all of you would not pass lvl 90 and will be the first screaming: "this system is sooo bad discouraging me to play hard content T_T" So exactly the same thing why you think the current system is bad. While only thing being bad is you as a player. Fact

Also why do you suggest to all who doesn't want SC to be braindead clickfest to play HC, does the perma death and moving to STD seems same to you as loosing some XP as a penalty for failing ?

"

vmt80 wrote:

No, I am referring to fact that if a guy plays PoE, say, two hours a day in a slow pace, one death at level 96 or 97 means a weeks playing time gone away progression-wise.

Exactly my dude !
Thats the problem you want to get to the most grindy thing in the game which is lvl 98+ by playing slowly 2 hours a day (even getting to 96-97 with slow 2h a day would took you 3 months or so) So lvl 100 won't ever happen to you in temp league anyway.

Let me teel you st, maybe it's time for you to reconsider your goals in this game. You cannot get as high as someone spending 5x more time and effort. You are just a crybaby who wants somethin' he doesn't deserve. Get it ? If you feel like you deserve it it, then go for it, accept the rules and system and beat it. Don't go to forums and cry about it being too hard for you so you cannot reach where the "big boys" can.

It only shows you are not good enough or you just dont play enough to get there. Your current lvl exectly reflects what you deserve as a player timewise/effortwise/skillwise/knowledgewise combined.

"

ghoulavenger wrote:

As a softcore player I consider the death penalty part of the grind

Fair enough then, I wished you made that clear earlier.

"

ghoulavenger wrote:

You could make an argument that the death penalty stops poor players from reaching the upper echelons, but that still doesn't discount simply avoiding the more risky content. You could, feasibly, get to level 100 in act 1. I wouldn't recommend doing it though.

No, you could not 'feasibly', you could very unrealistically do it, which makes it really irrelevant.

By the way, the only thing that make some content risky in the first place in SC is the xp penalty on death.
If removed, there would be no risk anymore pretty much ( for maybe what ... 99% of the content maybe ? )

"

coyd wrote:

Let me teel you st, maybe it's time for you to reconsider your goals in this game. You cannot get as high as someone spending 5x more time and effort.

There seem to be so many players around here whose expectations ... just do not fit the game at all.

"

Fruz wrote:

Spoiler

"

ghoulavenger wrote:

I've seen people do it in certain leagues within 24 hours of playtime. But I play standard (so I don't get the bonus mob density from league mechanics or whatever the league currently offers). I play a slow build and generally do not trade (although I have in the past). I also tend to pick up items and experiment with crafting. So there is very little way I'm going to be competitive with the latest gimmick for fast experience gains.

- There is no increased density in maps in Delves (, well there are delves, but you could be mapping instead, pretty sure you can sustain shaped t11/t12 without delves in standard, you can use the "new" Zana too ).
- SSF top players also get to 100 very quickly now, sometimes quicker than trade league ? I haven't followed recently so not 100% sure.
- I have no doubt those top players would reach lvl 100 in significantly less time that you with the same archetype if they wanted.
- SSF players are also crafting ... when they need to ( or feel like it )

So really, you can try to justify the fact that you are not level 100 anyhow you want, but at the end, if you were a better player, you would be there and not throwing "it's only time investement and you have to fight the boredom, it's all that it is about", because that is very wrong.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with not playing like a top player and being as efficient, but trying to find excuses and pretend that getting to level 100 is not difficult but only boring is a different thing.

"

ghoulavenger wrote:

It takes me about 4-5 hours to get 10% xp. So to go two levels at that pace will take me, at least 2 weeks. You throw in a death or two and it becomes 3. So yeah, I'm sticking by 3 weeks -- and thats not factoring in that level 99 will likely be significantly slower than 98 was. Although I still don't understand what this has to do with the death penalty.

a) You just pretend that the grind to lvl 100 is all about time
b) You say that you can't be bothered to do it because it's all about time
c) You clearly say that dying and suffering the xp penalty on death likely extends the time you need to reach lvl 100 by ~50%

You just contradicted yourself with c).

It's like saying "getting to level 80 is just too long for me really, It's not difficult at all but it's really about how much time I spend in this game. Sure I die 30 times per level, but at the end it's really all about time and I really don't have enough for that.

Nope, he is simply right.

Anyone that levels to 100 has to deal with the challenge of boredom, and depending on their content they target to accomplish that, that threat is simply a lot larger than the threat of death (on Softcore at least).

Those "top level" players always tend to use the more efficient items, builds, skills and mechanics when undergoing such an endeavour, but that is not diminishing the fact that EVERYONE playing Softcore will get to 100 as long as he plays that character and the amount of EXP gained surpasses the amount lost by dying. And this is simply a common sense fact...

You might have had a point if TencentGGG actually used a more harsh death EXP penalty (like deleveling) and/or linking the leveling process a lot better with the "difficult" high and/or end game content. As it currently stands it's simply a matter of time...

Besides, @ghoulavenger never contradicted himself, as even you can understand that for a non streamer, non meta, non efficient player might also feel the "harshnest" of deaths a lot more taxing and might additional time to muster heart to continue the boring task of leveling...

And even in your "example", as long as the EXP gained surpasses the amount lost upon death, you're still only limited by the amount of time you spend playing to reach a level up. So still dealing with boredom...

And some of us which are on the last few levels to 100 actually know on our own the dedication you need to have when you're making that push. And time and boredom constraints are even more dangerous for us than simply dying, because when you feel you're wasting time instead of enjoying it, you tend to decide to start doing something you enjoy a lot more. And that tends to be very different than "banging your head to a wall"...

...huh?

you seem to describe what would happen if there was no penalty. the xp penalty is the only thing keeping the game from being what you just described.

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Anyone that levels to 100 has to deal with the challenge of boredom

Why do you choose to hit lvl 100 if its boring for you ? There is plenty of goals you can focus on, just exclude lvl 100 and you are fine :)

BTW I'm goin to hit lvl 99 today at SSF, Im not bored at all so your statement about everyone gets bored is false.

Ofcourse if you choose to level on white maps with zero risk as someone said before it gets boring AF, but thats your choice and your way, there are other ways, harder, more challenging and more rewarding.

And that is my way, to do hard content but be prepared for it. I play maybe 4 hours a day in average so I'm not casual neither no-lifer but still I managed to be 10th place among SSF Elementalists and 24th overall so far. Was it by playing low lvl content ? NO. Was it by playing glass cannon uber clear meta ? NOT at all.. I'm doin all maps up to T16 and grind +-300 depth in delves (the monster level doesn't scale more if you go deeper)

So my advice for you guys is pick your way, set your goals, prepare for it, stop complaining.

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Those "top level" players always tend to use the more efficient items, builds, skills and mechanics when undergoing such an endeavour, but that is not diminishing the fact that EVERYONE playing Softcore will get to 100 as long as he plays that character and the amount of EXP gained surpasses the amount lost by dying. And this is simply a common sense fact...

And another rant @"buh-hu I am penalized because I am not running a fotm build".
:/
come on.

What you just said was about as useful as saying "EVERYONE will get an olympic golden medal as long as they arrive first. And this is simply a common sense fact ..."

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

As it currently stands it's simply a matter of time...

No it's not.
I know you would like to think it is, so that you can feel better with your lvl 99 char ( that you tried to push to level 100 ), but it's clearly not.
And this is a common sense fact.

If leveling is boring to you : don't, period.

"

coyd wrote:

Why do you choose to hit lvl 100 if its boring for you ? There is plenty of goals you can focus on, just exclude lvl 100 and you are fine :)

Yeah, I mean ... common sense people ?

Or we can try to read between the line :
- not wanting to admit that the xp penalty is setting one back too much = 'it's boring'
I am NOT saying that this is true for all players saying that.
But for the ones complaining about the xp penalty on death ? it likely is.

"

coyd wrote:

So my advice for you guys is pick your way, set your goals, prepare for it, stop complaining.

I really wish they would hear you and understand, I really do.

I think it's correct to say the dp is a stumbling block on the way to level 100.

It's a hard cap, because if your character dies more often than every 10% you will not progress.
Now you could play low content to prevent deaths, but this would mean you get less XP than someone playing high level content. As it is already an almost insane grind (in my eyes) to ding 100 when playing high level content, this makes the amount of players willing to attempt 100 smaller, the less well their character can deal with high level content.

But this presents us with the next question: Is that a good thing and why?

Personally, my level cap is well below 100 because even a strong char gets boring to me before getting to 95. I bet most others have similar soft caps to each character, depending on the fun this char's playstyle gives and the time people have to dedicate to the game. For them, 100 is a hard cap they anyway never reach. So why 100? Why does the game stop there? Dunno, it's just an arbitrary, high level.
So I don't assign any prestige to it, which means I utterly don't care how many or how many "bad" players reach it. Of course, most who reach 100 have a good level of skill, else they would stop due to the dp or the excessive time needed to get there in easy content, so it is an achievement. I personally just don't care.
So to me "it stops goofs from getting to 100" is a weak argument: It affects only those who are "bad" and willing to sink insane amounts of time into the game get to 100. Those are a tiny fraction of all POE players. In fact, it affects even fewer: Only those who care about this tiny fraction's "success".

Before we bother with such third-order effects, we should really first get a consensus on the major effect the dp has: Getting players to balance their builds. This is such a strong and - in my eyes - important effect that the whole prestige topic is kind of besidess the point...

"

coyd wrote:

@ghoulavenger: I would really like to see person who actually made lvl 100 without steping on maps. You are making arguments based on total BS.

I wish I bookmarked it, but back when dried lake farming was a thing, someone ground to 100 entirely on dried lake farming -- it's probably still on the reddit somewhere but I can't be assed to look for it. I also remember back in the day when I used to farm almost exclusively on Piety or the docks. Man, the game sure has changed.

What exactly is BS about my argument though? The xp penalty to level difference never reaches 0. Even doing crappy story content I still pull at least half a million xp an hour. It's the slow boat to China, but if you do it enough, you will get there. Keep in mind that I'm not on a meta clear speed flavor of the month build. I bet some builds could clear that content fast enough to get 10x that or more, which actually is about what I normally pull in red tier maps.

Might not be a FUN way to do it. But if you want to get to level 100 and you're terrible at the game, here's a path.

@Fruz There are other ways to make content risky, a couple are already in game. The first and most common is in the form of amount of portals available, which makes mapping by its very nature risky -- dying once is okay, but not six times so that beautiful cast on death build, won't clear a map. Another is opportunity cost, usually in the form of RNG gated items, like uber atziri sets and high tiered maps, which means risking a significant investment not only to death but to drops as well. Not enough? Well I never said get rid of the death penalty but I wouldn't mind if it were reduced.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

coyd wrote:

So my advice for you guys is pick your way, set your goals, prepare for it, stop complaining.

I really wish they would hear you and understand, I really do.

I do :P

Right know I have that beautiful Uber Atziri set in my stash, but I'm lvl 91 and half. It will be my first attempt at it on a melee and my 2nd ever, while I know the fight I'm realist and I do expect to die 1 or 2 times for x reasons and still kill her.

So I'm like do I go there with the risk of losing 10-20% xp and still kill her or wait I level up (which would take 4-6hours/3-4 days) at my pace which is fucking antagonizing to me.

So I had this reflexion this morning. From what I see the biggest frustration from people that want the death penalty removed is when you die to mistake (weither its your fault or not) but we also understand the concern about death rushing stuff and not learning.

So I was like hum ?!?!?! What if the first death was free but the death penalty start to kick in on consecutive death within x amount of time (5 min for example) which would prevent death rushing stuff

So with a solution like that you would at least be encouraged to try something at least once and be punished if you try death rush it or you wait the 5 minute needed for the next attempt and retry it.

The important thing is that time threhsold will be there to make you think about the fight and what you did wrong instead of just jumping in and death rushing it and if you decide to death rush it well you gonna have to deal with your xp sinking backward.

And we could make the penalty even harsher with that system.

@SisterBlister: You seem to be missing the point here. Because ppl here are mostly complaining about DP or its form which basically means they DO CARE about the XP. And you say you do not care about it at all. So why do you even participate in the discussion regarding this acpect of the game.

You said some general facts which do apply only for you and thats fine. If your soft cap is 95 and its ok for you then its fine for everyone else I guess, nothing to argue about here. Just play your game the way you want and feels fun for you.

If 100 doesnt mean anything to you thats fine, but it doesn't mean everyone feels that way. Its one of the goals you can try to achieve in this game and I will repeat myself here: there is plenty of goals you can focus on in this game. You dont have to stick to this one if you feel its too boring, hard, time consuming, whatever.