for everyone who wants a challange

"

Fruz wrote:

"

Jackalope_Gaming wrote:

Reflect was one example of course as I explicitly mentioned. Another that tends to be binary is no regen. Some builds can handle those because they pull from multiple defenses or can otherwise be more flexible, but that's not always saying those builds are more worthwhile since they can excel in other areas.

No regen is often pretty binary too indeed, it can be managed by flasks in many cases, but for example RF builds just can't run it.
Blood magic got removed at some point, let's hope that no-regen and reflect end up getting the same treatment.

Fully agreed. I'd like to remove these quick "yes or no" decisions in favor of ones that'll actually make me pause and consider.

I do acknowledge having to run a phys reflect map made me try something new that turned out quite well for me, but if it's a choice between those very rare situations (that really should have been obvious because I've been looking at more ways to build around Unbreakable's regen for a while) and having more people stop and do some back and forth in their heads before making a choice then I'd rather the latter.

Edit: Kinda feels like we're getting enough off track from the XP discussion that it should be brought back in.

If we're talking XP then I wonder if it's possible for some map mods that combine to be really painful to also get larger pack size from just the constituent mods.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

Jackalope_Gaming wrote:

For example, CWDT Hiltless using self reflect to trigger. Can be pretty fun but I would never expect that to end up as meta even if Mathil suddenly started playing it.

Something fun that might end up being meta is Juggernaut self ignite Eye of Innocence + Mokou's Embrace adding in Kingsguard and The Eternal Apple. Might only be fun for a little while depending on one's tolerance for the lost charge sound effect but there are enough ways to play with it that it'll get somewhere and be memorable.

So niche interactions, I agree, that's something that I find interesting too.
I was playing FB dominating blow hybrid witch a long time ago, that was really fun, but not super optimized, but great times still :)

Yes! Just like your Sweetbreaker. Stuff that feels fun and niche despite probably not having the absolute power needed to be meta.

Hm, I'm reminded of how D&D players started assigning tiers to different classes in D&D 3.5, mostly to give quick and dirty analysis on how some class abilities and features can run the gamut from being incredibly underpowered for the game to totally breaking it apart. Perhaps it would be useful to categorize skills and other such PoE things that way, of course with the caveat that there will almost always be ways to do something shitty as well as amazingly well.

"

Fruz wrote:

You didn't read my examples at all I guess, you're just talking just purely out of one example ( which is one of the three 'exceptions' I mentioned for obvious reasons ; gladiator ), the rest being mostly ignorance.

...WAT?

wait, wait, wait...

so you think other classes can't block or use armor? for real?!

and you thought i referred to rearguard... for a gladiator?

"

Fruz wrote:

And if you think that going from 75% res to 80% ( can't use +max flask or other items anymore ) will make you go from "one-shotting/instantly killing yourself" to "handle reflect", you are really living in a dreamland lol.

...so you thought i was referring to block/resistances/armor as... singular terms and not to be utilized together?

wow.

There is no point trying to explain stuff that I already said, so :

"

Fruz wrote:

You didn't read my examples at all I guess, you're just talking just purely out of one example ( which is one of the three 'exceptions' I mentioned for obvious reasons ; gladiator ), the rest being mostly ignorance.

Now feel free to show me a 75%+ block build that isn't a gladiator, has 30k armour or similarly strong mitigations mechanics, and has at least correct dps ( without resorting to broken OP jewel that give 15% block on their own or that kind of shit ).

I know how defenses in this game work, very well.
The current dps output on most characters ( well, properly built, including significant defenses ) affected by reflect make reflect a completely binary mechanic :
Either you can ignore it, or you pretty much instantly kill yourself, period.

That is a FACT, that your scarce experience with one gladiator will not change.

"

Fruz wrote:

There is no point trying to explain stuff that I already said, so :

"

Fruz wrote:

You didn't read my examples at all I guess, you're just talking just purely out of one example ( which is one of the three 'exceptions' I mentioned for obvious reasons ; gladiator ), the rest being mostly ignorance.

Now feel free to show me a 75%+ block build that isn't a gladiator, has 30k armour or similarly strong mitigations mechanics, and has at least correct dps ( without resorting to broken OP jewel that give 15% block on their own or that kind of shit ).

I know how defenses in this game work, very well.
The current dps output on most characters ( well, properly built, including significant defenses ) affected by reflect make reflect a completely binary mechanic :
Either you can ignore it, or you pretty much instantly kill yourself, period.

That is a FACT, that your scarce experience with one gladiator will not change.

1. wtf is "correct dps?"
2. there have been numerous builds, usually from rangers, that use 75% block with rearguard (and a few were scourges of pvp for a while). wow. already your point has been disproven.
3. "scarce experience with ONE gladiator?" hahahahahaa. wow. tilted.

as for "I know how defenses in this game work, very well." - it doesn't sound that way, since you made it clear that you thought i was referring to using armor OR max res OR block, instead of using all.

lolz @ the "fact" that reflect owns every char that isn't a gladiator.

"

robmafia wrote:

1. wtf is "correct dps?"
2. there have been numerous builds, usually from rangers, that use 75% block with rearguard (and a few were scourges of pvp for a while). wow. already your point has been disproven.
3. "scarce experience with ONE gladiator?" hahahahahaa. wow. tilted.

as for "I know how defenses in this game work, very well." - it doesn't sound that way, since you made it clear that you thought i was referring to using armor OR max res OR block, instead of using all.

lolz @ the "fact" that reflect owns every char that isn't a gladiator.

Can you try to read the whole post without avoiding wht is not convenient to you ?
You are doing this on purpose, right ?

Do those 75%+ block rangers have 30k armour or similarly strong mitigation on top of it ???

/rofl, so ironic given :

"

robmafia wrote:

...so you thought i was referring to block/resistances/armor as... singular terms and not to be utilized together?

It really got down to the pot and the kettle here.
Sweet irony, so sweet sometimes.

And no, I never even though about considering only one type of mitigation, if you had read from the very beginning you would know this, but reading and actually considering all arguments and the context is definitely not something that you can or want to do.
But are you going to assume that most casters also have 50%+ spell block now ?
lulz

And now you are down to "that isn't a gladiator", like wtf ...
baffling.

woooooooooooooooooooooooow

i keep explaining HOW this is possible. and you keep trying to make it about 'most' chars, "most casters," and etc.

also, it's as if i started this by saying that some builds are completely unaffected by reflect - trappers, totems, summoners, etc. i guess those are all gladiators, too.

as for casters - it's as if occultist cws builds weren't some of the biggest tanks in pvp for about 1-2 years. it's as if xirgil's exists, or something.

also,

"

Fruz wrote:

Can you....?

Surely you must have come to the conclusion "nope" by now? I've been told this, have learned to heed it (at least in this thread) and pass it on: Don't feed the troll, save yourself the trouble.

right.

trolling - verb - making sound arguments based on facts and evidence.

in this case, even supporting the argument with examples, items, and... more facts.

yup. trolling. definitely./s

right. reflect pwns every character ever and can't be mitigated by anything. definitely nothing mentioned in the last 2 pages...

"

robmafia wrote:

also, it's as if i started this by saying that some builds are completely unaffected by reflect - trappers, totems, summoners, etc. i guess those are all gladiators, too.

One word : READ
R E A D

"

Fruz wrote:

I'm sorry, but mentioning mitigation as a way to handle reflect is BS, plain and simple.
If you build is affected by reflect, even if tanky, if you have x00 k dps, you are going to fuck yourself on the first pack you find.

Please read all the words, especially the underlined ones as they are key elements to understand the whole sentence.

"

Fruz wrote:

For the set of abilities/setup affected by reflect, should we consider that the mechanics ( and the numbers ) is fine because 3 ascendancies ( including one relying on "immune to reflect" /rofl ) can handle it ?
Is that it ?

Reflect in 3.4 is an aberration, period.

"

Robmafia wrote:

as for casters - it's as if occultist cws builds weren't some of the biggest tanks in pvp for about 1-2 years. it's as if xirgil's exists, or something.

also,

So, in a discussion about %based reflect (inexistant in PvP), you are trying to back up your claim bringing in ... PvP scaling ??
And right after that .... legacy items ?


*sigh*
Now that your trolling is very blatant, let's move on.

"

SisterBlister wrote:

Surely you must have come to the conclusion "nope" by now? I've been told this, have learned to heed it (at least in this thread) and pass it on: Don't feed the troll, save yourself the trouble.

Many in those forum are genuinely wrong though, now that It has been made blatant that there is actually quite some trolling involved, indeed ...

How much ridicolous are all the fanboys saying that exp penalty is there for making you learn? A LOT ;) No, "dear" white knights, exp penalty is there FOR PLAYER RETENTION. At least in dev's distorted vision, because they think "if one dies, he becames angry and more motivated to remain to overcome obstacles, so maybe someday he will notice in a city that other player with a ridicolous crowned frog pet and he will Buy it too". Instead, after a death many players go away. For days. Some for ever ;)



The solution is there:

-Hardcore? Perma death

-League? 10% penalty (so that the white knights will not stop seeing themselves as an elite. This IN GAME. Because IN REAL LIFE i have serious doubts of them being "elite") ;)

-Softcore? SOFTcore, so ZERO penalties

This way, after league end, Softcore players can play league naterial (inserted in core gane) with no penalty by only waiting 3 months

Done, EVERYONE HAPPY



But no... you know... the crowned frogs.... -.-'