Friendly reminder: Uber Lab is still boring and lack of re-entry is bullshit

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Fruz wrote:

PS : Abyssal depth's encounters don't have a checkpoint, breaches don't have a checkpoint, breachlord's domains don't have a checkpoint, incursions don't have a checkpoint, Timed Zana missions don't have a checkpoint, timed haku missions don't have a checkpoint.
But right, the lab is the only place without a checkpoint .... unless you know the game and realize that it isn't.

Can't all of those can be re-entered though? I thought that was actually the main point, not that it didn't have a checkpoint. You can't re-enter the same lab if you die, you have to start a new one.

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Fruz wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

Labyrinth Troves and Silver Chests rarely give anything useful, and whatever reward they might give is immediately offset by the extra amount of unfun content you have to do to get to them.

They do, but how would you know if you are pretty much not running it and avoiding them when you run it anyway ?

Because I actually run Uber Lab semi-regularly, and when I do, I do full runs (all gauntlets, puzzles, darkshrines, Argus, and any silver doors along the way).

Most of the time, the chests drop invariably crap jewels, low value currency, or vendor trash uniques. And even when you get lucky with a div card or quality gem chest, the fun can sometimes be instantly ruined by not having the inventory space to pick it all up. This, by the way, is a problem unique to the lab, since everywhere else you can just portal out and dump stuff to your stash or a vendor.

So no, even the mid-lab chests aren't a reliable source of reward, but even if they were, you get what, maybe 5 of them over a ~10 room run? Which is still way sparser than mapping.

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Phaeded wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

PS : Abyssal depth's encounters don't have a checkpoint, breaches don't have a checkpoint, breachlord's domains don't have a checkpoint, incursions don't have a checkpoint, Timed Zana missions don't have a checkpoint, timed haku missions don't have a checkpoint.
But right, the lab is the only place without a checkpoint .... unless you know the game and realize that it isn't.

Can't all of those can be re-entered though? I thought that was actually the main point, not that it didn't have a checkpoint. You can't re-enter the same lab if you die, you have to start a new one.

Correct. The main problem is not the lack of checkpoints, it's the complete and permanent loss of progress and rewards upon leaving, no matter how momentarily. ISP sucks? Fuck you, offering lost. Client crashed due to GGG's coding mistakes? Fuck you, offering lost. Lightning strike knocked out your power? Fuck you, offering lost.

Even breaches and abysses can be re-entered and finished if you're quick enough about it. The only other exception is Zana's "don't die or leave" mission, which is equally bullshit for the same reasons.

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SubDoom wrote:

Labruns are 5-10 minutes. I can do 9 key runs in 10 minutes.

You can, sure. Players who don't play dedicated labrunner build can't.

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I usually play evasion based vaal pact type characters. For those type characters it is extra crap

Uber ascended without problem in HC on an evasion char this league.
This was before obtening coil, before the character was well tuned too.
Didn't have problems doing it in VP characters in the past either of course, not particularly more than other characters.

It's only "extra crap" difficulty wise if there is a problem with your character, and this is how the game is "telling" you about it, or there might be a problem with how you play ( positioning, not knowing the limits of the char, make judgments mistakes, etc ... ).

Implying that armour characters have it much easier in the game overall than evasion ones is also showing a lack of understanding of defense mechanics, by the way.
You are blaming the lab and the game, instead of trying to get better ( at the game in general ), it's a bit sad tbh.
Well, it's your problem ( not only, when you are trying to spread such nonsense of course ).


PS : Abyssal depth's encounters don't have a checkpoint, breaches don't have a checkpoint, breachlord's domains don't have a checkpoint, incursions don't have a checkpoint, Timed Zana missions don't have a checkpoint, timed haku missions don't have a checkpoint.
But right, the lab is the only place without a checkpoint .... unless you know the game and realize that it isn't.



Just wanted to address your usual uninformed an unexperienced lab rant.

You are the uninformed clueless person in these threads, Fruz. No where did I say Labyrinth was hard. I said Labyrinth was boring and not fun. I started off with the main point which is we all love PoE. We don't all love Labyrinth because it is a different game. I am happy for you that you like the Labyrinth game. The Labyrinth game to me is loathsome crap.

Regrading your nonsense about lots of other parts of the games don't allow re-entry, it just demonstrates your own clueless inexperience in the game. Labyrinth is less loathsome playing armor characters than evasion characters, IMHO. If you don't agree then fine but it just shows your own inability to communicate that it means to you that Labyrinth is hard for me rather than boring and not fun.

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Phaeded wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

PS : Abyssal depth's encounters don't have a checkpoint, breaches don't have a checkpoint, breachlord's domains don't have a checkpoint, incursions don't have a checkpoint, Timed Zana missions don't have a checkpoint, timed haku missions don't have a checkpoint.
But right, the lab is the only place without a checkpoint .... unless you know the game and realize that it isn't.

Can't all of those can be re-entered though? I thought that was actually the main point, not that it didn't have a checkpoint. You can't re-enter the same lab if you die, you have to start a new one.

You have only one chance at Liches, same for breach, domains (until you reach the boss ), incursions and timed zana/haku missions.

You could go back in the abyssal depth, but you can't fight the boss twice.

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Turtledove wrote:

You are the uninformed clueless person in these threads, Fruz. No where did I say Labyrinth was hard

I know that you will never admit it, don't worry.
Your clear lack of experience about the lab ( and evasion characters actually there, and lack of understanding of PoE's defensive mechanics ) makes you think that the lab is "unfair" in this case.
Which shows a clear lack of ability to do it without struggling, which denotes difficulty ( at least in your case ).


I was merely pointing the strawmans that you were using by the way, nothing more, I didn't even speak about disliking the lab or anything there as it was not my point at all :).
And that hollow answer of yours only proves my points farther, thank you.

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Oblitus wrote:

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Oblitus wrote:

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SubDoom wrote:

Labruns are 5-10 minutes. I can do 9 key runs in 10 minutes.

You can, sure. Players who don't play dedicated labrunner build can't.

You can do it under 10 mins with many (most?) builds actually ( not dedicated labrunners ), but you need quite some experience if you want to achieve that with most layout imho.
It's not realistic to expect everybody to complete it under 10 mins, for an average player ( who does not suck at the game let's say ), 20~30 mins is more of a realistic estimate imho, if the player does not take time to go to the side zone and look for things / kill most of the monsters of course.
But 10 mins ? It can be done, really.

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Fruz wrote:

You could go back in the abyssal depth, but you can't fight the boss twice.

Technically, you can, if it is not a timed phase. End even with timed phase you can if you are quick enough.

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Fruz wrote:

You can do it under 10 mins with many (most?) builds actually ( not dedicated labrunners ), but you need quite some experience if you want to achieve that with most layout imho.
It's not realistic to expect everybody to complete it under 10 mins, for an average player ( who does not suck at the game let's say ), 20~30 mins is more of a realistic estimate imho, if the player does not take time to go to the side zone and look for things / kill most of the monsters of course.
But 10 mins ? It can be done, really.

First of all, you have to know exactly what you are doing. Second, you need a build that can just rush through ignoring most traps. Third, you have to know how the layout is generated to avoid wasting time wandering around. Fourth, you have to know what you need and what you don't need - a lot of labyrinth stuff is confusing. So to go through labyrint without wanting to go into murder spree you have to know it well.

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Oblitus wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

You could go back in the abyssal depth, but you can't fight the boss twice.

Technically, you can, if it is not a timed phase. End even with timed phase you can if you are quick enough

Can you ?
I could swear I either logged out once in one fight or disconnected, and when I came back there was nothing more ...
Don't remember if that was a timed phase though, my bad if you actually can come back into the fight easily when it's not timed, I guess I learned something in that case ( never failed a Lich fight but for that one ).
Well let's talk about just spires then, I guess the timer is still running, so you're likely just screwed if you ld / rip if SC / log out in there.

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Oblitus wrote:

First of all, you have to know exactly what you are doing. Second, you need a build that can just rush through ignoring most traps. Third, you have to know how the layout is generated to avoid wasting time wandering around. Fourth, you have to know what you need and what you don't need - a lot of labyrinth stuff is confusing. So to go through labyrint without wanting to go into murder spree you have to know it well.

It does not need as much preparation as you think it does, really.
I did it under 8 mins twice on a build that was not designed for the lab at all or anything, without going to poelab or anything, I just rushed through it.
The char just had quite ok/nice attack speed and shield charge, that's it.
Most melee can do that imho.
One of those might even have had a silver cache opened in it, not sure.
The layout was probably not too bad though, but if you have some experience with the lab ( I had never tried to go for ladder or anything, but I must have gone through uber lab more than 50 times total since it came out I think ), you can quickly know what's what.
And after the first run on the same day well ... you just need to remember a few things.

So yes, with quite a bit of experience, it's not impossible to do it under 10 mins, if you are going for a fast run of course.
Some "unlucky" layout make that more difficult.

I farmed lab for some time in different leagues but still ... it is so dumb.
You need to have a special build to negate traps and Izaro's mechanics, for some builds it can be a real pain in the ass.


Easy solution
GGG should have given Ascendancy points right after the first fight with Izaro.
But if you want to get the chests and enchants, in this case, you need to go till the end of the lab.

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

You are the uninformed clueless person in these threads, Fruz. No where did I say Labyrinth was hard

I know that you will never admit it, don't worry.
Your clear lack of experience about the lab ( and evasion characters actually there, and lack of understanding of PoE's defensive mechanics ) makes you think that the lab is "unfair" in this case.
Which shows a clear lack of ability to do it without struggling, which denotes difficulty ( at least in your case ).


I was merely pointing the strawmans that you were using by the way, nothing more, I didn't even speak about disliking the lab or anything there as it was not my point at all :).
And that hollow answer of yours only proves my points farther, thank you.

You are just trolling, I know, but I'll respond anyway.

I never said anything about unfair. That is another of your silly trolls.

I never said you disliked lab. I said I was happy that you like lab. I said that I think lab is boring and not fun to me. You're trolling is really getting very silly here.

You need to read up on what "strawmans" means. You are using it improperly which makes your trolling much less effective.