What are your 2018 toughts about an Hardmode in the PoE's futur ?

"

arknath wrote:

Why make an own league for the 0.1%? Already too few players playing HC to split them up even further. For the softcore ppl wanting harder content just play HC instead and do tough map mods xD

How is hc "harder content"? The only difference I see is having a far worse outcome for taking a damage spike or getting dc'd. I want to play on "Insane Difficulty", not try to get an achievement for "Hitless run".

PoE is all about the speed grind right now. That isn't really hardcore as much as it's just time consuming endless map repetition. In order to even want a real hardcore league GGG would have to significantly lower the xp required going from level 90 to 100 to justify the ramp up of all white/blue/yellow trash mobs difficulty. Reduce the xp grind from 90 to 100 to incentivize continuing to want to play a build past 91 (I don't give a shit about bragging rights). The sheer volume of map runs to accrue xp is way out of proportion to the enjoyment derived from playing PoE. When PoE (or any game for that matter) ceases to be entertaining (not fun-to-play anymore) that's my "game over" moment in time. For PoE to be able to stay on my fun-to-play list of games going past 5.5 years now is an attribute to the re-playability with the huge skill diversity than the actual 10 acts and then mapping until the build stops being fun-to-play (when it hits the progression wall or I get burned out on it) and I look at what skill I want to play next.

So GGG could take hardcore to the next level but only if the xp grind isn't as steep. Time-wise GGG should be able to slow the whole of map running down because the mobs won't be all one-shotted all the time so time to level to 100 should be long enough (not including outlier freak speed runners with god gear). But this is all just speculating and I seriously doubt GGG will introduce any more permanent leagues to divide the player base even more than it currently is.

No matter what GGG does, they over do it.

Therefor I wouldn't suggest to them making a "hard mode" because it would just be something they could brag about their players not being able to do.

"

Arrowneous wrote:

PoE is all about the speed grind right now. That isn't really hardcore as much as it's just time consuming endless map repetition. In order to even want a real hardcore league GGG would have to significantly lower the xp required going from level 90 to 100 to justify the ramp up of all white/blue/yellow trash mobs difficulty. Reduce the xp grind from 90 to 100 to incentivize continuing to want to play a build past 91 (I don't give a shit about bragging rights). The sheer volume of map runs to accrue xp is way out of proportion to the enjoyment derived from playing PoE. When PoE (or any game for that matter) ceases to be entertaining (not fun-to-play anymore) that's my "game over" moment in time. For PoE to be able to stay on my fun-to-play list of games going past 5.5 years now is an attribute to the re-playability with the huge skill diversity than the actual 10 acts and then mapping until the build stops being fun-to-play (when it hits the progression wall or I get burned out on it) and I look at what skill I want to play next.

So GGG could take hardcore to the next level but only if the xp grind isn't as steep. Time-wise GGG should be able to slow the whole of map running down because the mobs won't be all one-shotted all the time so time to level to 100 should be long enough (not including outlier freak speed runners with god gear). But this is all just speculating and I seriously doubt GGG will introduce any more permanent leagues to divide the player base even more than it currently is.

You are talking about making a real hardcore experience in PoE wich has nothing to do with the actual discussion, hardcore only remain in the fact there is a permanent death if you make a mistake.

Hardmode mean content have an increased difficulty compared to main game but doesn't necessary mean your experience is over if you die.

"

Arknath wrote:

Why make an own league for the 0.1%? Already too few players playing HC to split them up even further. For the softcore ppl wanting harder content just play HC instead and do tough map mods xD

I mean .. if they insist.... make a server with 500% increased monster life and 300% increased monster damage with 0 altered loot tables. Have at it all you want. Thing is I don't think the remaining 99.9% of players want their money to go to anything beyond that. If you give special loot then everyone would play that league instead because who wants to play a league that cannot provide all the loot options?

Horrible idea

Well at least your conclusion sounds more than honest and probably coming from heart directly that's my guess :D

i suspect however that you don't understand anything of what the suggestion was about and the background behind so if you allow me to do it let me explain again.

There is a fact, many players doesn't want to go HC because as history said so they don't find much interest into dying from lack of attention mistakes or network issue, or even in some rare cases issues coming directly from the game itself, they also don't find any motivation to eventualy give it a try, HC is purely a matter of mindset you know it doesn't offer anything else if we talk about gameplay ( not anymore since SC temp and HC temp has the same content ).
Doesn't mean they wouldn't challenge themselves instead, with an hardmode that's my point.
There are also a lot of players that would see the slower pace ( not the R-type delta thing PoE became ) coming back, it could be interesting for them aswell;
I also never mentioned ( as far as i know ) that it was forced to be a league, can be a temporary event for the lulz, an option you can opt-out if you are bored, i mean there arn't any lack in term of possible solutions and implementations model.
You can trust me on this one, it's way higher than 0.01%.


I mean this is a game you know, there are often more things possible than impossible one on both gameplay structure and dev part.

If you want the game to be harder... don't wear a belt. Instant hard mode.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

If you want the game to be harder... don't wear a belt. Instant hard mode.

If you want to start like that ...

- Let's remove SSF you can do it without a separate league

- Let's remove HC you can play it and reroll character in SC if you die one time.

- you could also do flashback event preparing hundred maps in advance with different mods from past leagues, and also adding a zana mod rotations, during a month.

- Ladder ? WICH LADDER ? Let's create one with players interested to join a discord ( why not an IRC channel while we are at it ? ) and set their own.

List can be really long ...

"

GoldDragon32 wrote:

"hard" is a real tricky concept to impliment in POE. The problem is that instant solutions to dangerous situations are so prevelant. At 1% health? You are safe and fine if you can just hit your seething flask, pop a portal, or click a logout macro.

This tends to lead to all threats in POE having to be completely binary... they either kill you instantly and are dangerous... or just deal some amount of damage that is less then your whole health and are at most, mildly threatening if you are not paying attention.

There hasn't been a single league where I haven't seen complaints since I've started. There are even people who would advocate for even shorter leagues.

Frankly it boggles my mind that someone would ask for a "harder" mode. The game's basic design revolves around constantly spamming a handful of skills clearing waves in an endless search for loot.

An extremely small percentage can actually manage a 40/40 on their challenges.

Power Creep.

Invulnerability phases.

Difficulty translates roughly to extreme burst damage (one-shots) and avoiding taking the hit or instantly failing.

Inflate monster hp? It doesn't get "harder" so much as annoying or build restrictive.

The genre by its very nature limits the ability to "enhance" difficulty.

Traps can take skill and timing to navigate - but more often than not they're generally just annoying or frustrating.

I didn't suggest removing anything or changing the game in any way. Have a great day.

"

Heli0nix wrote:

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

If you want the game to be harder... don't wear a belt. Instant hard mode.

If you want to start like that ...

- Let's remove SSF you can do it without a separate league

- Let's remove HC you can play it and reroll character in SC if you die one time.

- you could also do flashback event preparing hundred maps in advance with different mods from past leagues, and also adding a zana mod rotations, during a month.

- Ladder ? WICH LADDER ? Let's create one with players interested to join a discord ( why not an IRC channel while we are at it ? ) and set their own.

List can be really long ...

And there's the problem. Instead of recognizing that it's not difficulty you actually want, you just aren't willing to realize that arpg gameplay by its very nature is extremely repetitive and primarily driven by the desire to gear up.

You want difficulty, it's as easy as playing with handicaps.

You want a more enjoyable experience? Remember to take a break or split time between other games that are less repetitive.

"

SeCKSEgai wrote:

"

Heli0nix wrote:

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

If you want the game to be harder... don't wear a belt. Instant hard mode.

If you want to start like that ...

- Let's remove SSF you can do it without a separate league

- Let's remove HC you can play it and reroll character in SC if you die one time.

- you could also do flashback event preparing hundred maps in advance with different mods from past leagues, and also adding a zana mod rotations, during a month.

- Ladder ? WICH LADDER ? Let's create one with players interested to join a discord ( why not an IRC channel while we are at it ? ) and set their own.

List can be really long ...

And there's the problem. Instead of recognizing that it's not difficulty you actually want, you just aren't willing to realize that arpg gameplay by its very nature is extremely repetitive and primarily driven by the desire to gear up.

You want difficulty, it's as easy as playing with handicaps.

You want a more enjoyable experience? Remember to take a break or split time between other games that are less repetitive.

1- Hardmode? I know my english vocabulary isn't perfect but i tought it was pretty clear, why would i recognize something i never mentioned or asked for in first stance ? It's not only about difficulty.

This is about adding something that contribute to the game ( in a temporary form or not ) with a large enough visibility, implementation, ladder, entertainement, and so on not just something for my personal satisfaction. Else i would remove my belt ( already did in fact, along my flasks to show how stupid power creep became ).

2- There is a little / medium demand for it, the hardmode subject come often on the table and surprisingly some good ideas already made their ways along the years. Could be a thing with a bit of work.

3- How an hardmode doesn't fit well with gearing ? It's always about gearing i don't see how you ended to think that.


4- ARPG's nature is repetitive ?
Tough discussion, we debated this subject over and over for years on this forum, i don't know when you joined the game, but i invite you to read some of these posts you would be astonished by the answers.
The general answer globaly tend to a yes and i generaly agree with, but not an absolute one.
Also ARPG's despite their poor "related" nature are offering a great structure to build various gameplays ( according to the legend there was even PvP in some older ARPG's ! )
Don't worry tho, with an hardmode the repetitive part will always be here anyway. Will eventualy require to use two buttons instead of one, i still have enough faith in humanity to think it's still possible.

Regarding the last part and your advices on how i should invest my time on PoE thank you SeCKSEgai much appreciated !! Buttt i don't think it's really relevant to the discussion.