How would an auction house be worse exactly?

"

SouthCoast wrote:

Well, an AH would actually create more player retention . Speaking from my D3 days , I would log in at least twice a day to see what had sold, and what I could buy. Of course while you are logged in , might as while play for a bit....

SO for Tencent, more players online would be a good thing. But there is a cost with running any added feature. The business model may not work in Tencent's favor.

D3's Real money AH ran a profit for Blizz. So costs were not an issue (in my opinion), until the crackdown on internet gambling by the USA. The RMAH on D3 was in a grey area for the new laws and ran the risk of Blizz possibly being shut out of the US market ( Pokerstars etc.).

So.... a free AH, set up by Tencent/GGG would not run a profit? It would have more players logging in, but.... In this FTP business model, would more people buy Supporter Packs ? GGG has most likely ran a business model on this, so I think the answer is no.

Anyone have any smashing ideas??? GGG do listen. And I would welcome an AH.

Here's two ideas for discussion....
They could run it as a separate client and have advertising on the site. I'm ok with this. Not sure how the player base would react though.
How about buying it ,like an extra stash tab? (as mentioned previously)I don't like this at all, but GGG has shown in the past that selling tabs is what they love to do!

Using D3 as an AH success story in a ARPG is simply making a point why GGG should never ever consider it. It ruined that Franchise.

I would instantly quit and stop buying their supporter packs if they ever implemented an AH. But that should not even matter that much. It will ruin the idea of the game especially the way it's designed:

- market will be flooded with everything
- people would spend their end game trying to snipe items instead of playing the game
- prices would plummet and you would not be able to sell anything but the best items
- with no soulbound gear they will have to nerf drop rates to make loot still rare and seem like a reward. I play the game to find shit myself and not stalk it in an AH.
- I paid real money for my premium tabs and and AH would most likely make the useless. GGG needs to thread carefully how they mess around with stuff people bought.

GGG listen but the community does not clearly. Read the dam trade manifesto and listen to them: there will never be an AH implemented. The trade is fine as it is from their perspective.

It's amazing that in almost 200 posts, not one new argument has been raised.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

It's amazing that in almost 200 posts, not one new argument has been raised.

Because the only reason to ever get an AH in POE is " wah wah wah I want one". That's not a very good reason. yet despite giving them multiple reasons why it's a bad idea they keep coming.

Dam entitled millennial's demanding shit for their own personal comfort at the expense of a whole community.

Quote...(Let's just focus on one)

- market will be flooded with everything

Well in the D3 example, you were limited to the amount of items allowed in the AH. Which of course would bring you back to logging in to update your tab. Truth is we now have a flooded market, as you can advertise as many items as you want, you are only limited by stash space. And yes I use quad tabs for listings.... can throw anything in there, who knows, someone Might buy it lol!

Now the only point I can see against an AH, is if players actually leave the game, as threatened by some. This Tencent does not want. But how many people leave the game because of trading? And SSF is not the answer, RNG can be a cruel Mistress ....

"

Bone2flesh wrote:

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

It's amazing that in almost 200 posts, not one new argument has been raised.

Because the only reason to ever get an AH in POE is " wah wah wah I want one". That's not a very good reason. yet despite giving them multiple reasons why it's a bad idea they keep coming.

Dam entitled millennial's demanding shit for their own personal comfort at the expense of a whole community.

FTFY:

Because the only reason to not put a better trading system in POE is " wah wah wah D3". That's not a very good reason. Yet despite giving them multiple reasons why it's a good idea they keep dismissing it.

Dam entitled millennial's insisting that the rest of the community must play exactly the way they do.


...

Seriously, though... With all of the players who try this game and quit after a few hours of play, I suspect that this game's player base would more than double if either trade were improved (not necessarily an AH) or drops were increased. Trade experience is the last major blemish on this otherwise great game.

"

AcrylicHercules wrote:

Seriously, though... With all of the players who try this game and quit after a few hours of play, I suspect that this game's player base would more than double if either trade were improved (not necessarily an AH) or drops were increased. Trade experience is the last major blemish on this otherwise great game.

Yeah.

The new players probably dont post, but the most common reason I hear for more experienced people quitting leagues or the whole game can be boiled down to map drop rates / map trading time / map sustain.

Which is a solvable problem.

And every one of Shagsbeard, Kuciol, and Bone2fleshs complaints and fears and worries about an AH impacting gear rates is not even a factor for maps.

Also, this league more than any other proves that gear inflation isnt actually what GGG is trying to avoid.

A level 15 chest with 121 hp and 10% to max life and 40 resists from a temple is, by itself, as a single item, greater than the leveling gear inflation you could have seen with an AH in previous leagues.

And then the weapons with 160% increased damage, and 70 added elemental damage at level 12? Again, the gear inflation from the temple is far, far greater than whatever an AH would cause to occur.

The prevalence of 6L chests in the last two leagues, with prices dropping to 10C for decent roll 6L, and the game hasn't failed...

Its a Chicken Little, sky is falling mentality.

Edit - At the high end, gear inflation too with shaper and elder items. Off hands that add 120% of physical as extra damage? Insane, but the game is still here. There wouldnt even be inflation of these items because when people are selling 50ex items, they pretty much always respond. So its a limited supply driving the market.

All of these are basic factual arguments about item inflation, but the response wont be a gear analysis it will be emotional/trolling again. Prove me wrong.

If map trading/sustain was as big a problem as people tend to try to make it, there would be a channel dedicated to trading maps like 820. There isn't because it's simply not that big of a problem. The people who want to trade maps would rather be running maps than sitting around trading.

"

Bone2flesh wrote:

"

SouthCoast wrote:

Well, an AH would actually create more player retention . Speaking from my D3 days , I would log in at least twice a day to see what had sold, and what I could buy. Of course while you are logged in , might as while play for a bit....

SO for Tencent, more players online would be a good thing. But there is a cost with running any added feature. The business model may not work in Tencent's favor.

D3's Real money AH ran a profit for Blizz. So costs were not an issue (in my opinion), until the crackdown on internet gambling by the USA. The RMAH on D3 was in a grey area for the new laws and ran the risk of Blizz possibly being shut out of the US market ( Pokerstars etc.).

So.... a free AH, set up by Tencent/GGG would not run a profit? It would have more players logging in, but.... In this FTP business model, would more people buy Supporter Packs ? GGG has most likely ran a business model on this, so I think the answer is no.

Anyone have any smashing ideas??? GGG do listen. And I would welcome an AH.

Here's two ideas for discussion....
They could run it as a separate client and have advertising on the site. I'm ok with this. Not sure how the player base would react though.
How about buying it ,like an extra stash tab? (as mentioned previously)I don't like this at all, but GGG has shown in the past that selling tabs is what they love to do!

Using D3 as an AH success story in a ARPG is simply making a point why GGG should never ever consider it. It ruined that Franchise.

I would instantly quit and stop buying their supporter packs if they ever implemented an AH. But that should not even matter that much. It will ruin the idea of the game especially the way it's designed:

- market will be flooded with everything
- people would spend their end game trying to snipe items instead of playing the game
- prices would plummet and you would not be able to sell anything but the best items
- with no soulbound gear they will have to nerf drop rates to make loot still rare and seem like a reward. I play the game to find shit myself and not stalk it in an AH.
- I paid real money for my premium tabs and and AH would most likely make the useless. GGG needs to thread carefully how they mess around with stuff people bought.

GGG listen but the community does not clearly. Read the dam trade manifesto and listen to them: there will never be an AH implemented. The trade is fine as it is from their perspective.

The AH at D3 was certainly not the reason why the game went downhill. D3 actually had it´s best days with the AH. I honestly never had as much fun with D3, like I had when Inferno was brutal and weapons from there costly.

That the was shut down had more to do with laws than with free will. Blizzard as a company did not want to risk going on court, which might would have happened or not.

You also need to look at D2 and POE and the AH like systems there, that are running by third party organizations.

At both games, a huge RMT network exists, you can buy all items on these, for real money. It is impossible for the game providers, to shut these websites down, as their hosts are non reachable due server locations.

Said networks already influence the drop rates or do you honestly believe that it was intended to have drops of 1:60000 and worse?
Right now, it is absolutely impossible to truly find gear yourself, because of RMT websites. I had chars, that still had level 50 and 60 items equipped, while I was 90!


An AH would fix many of these problems.

Not only would trading be in the hands of the game providers, no it would also allow the creation of a free trade currency, lets call it "pug" for now.

You gain pugs by playing through the story and each char can only have a certain amount of pugs at a time. If you trade for an item, your pugs go to the account of the other person and after the season has ended, all pugs disappear.

This shuts down bots, it forces you to make smart trades and makes sure that snipers are out of the system too.

There are certain games that used similar systems and it worked quite well.

In the end, GGG has to find a way to put trading back into their own hands. RMT is bad, it ruins the game.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

If map trading/sustain was as big a problem as people tend to try to make it, there would be a channel dedicated to trading maps like 820. There isn't because it's simply not that big of a problem. The people who want to trade maps would rather be running maps than sitting around trading.

Yeah, no one actually wants to be sitting around trading. Thats the point of this thread and many others.

I suspect there is no 820 because there are scores of maps and trading maps is not effective because the person who has what you want does not need what you have in 99 out of 100 cases. The chances of overlap are just too small.

Back to your gear inflation arguments,
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/534134
Most of which were not available in previous leagues, pretty much destroys the idea that GGG is fighting gear inflation, and the idea that gear inflation destroys the game.

Look at those amulets, I didn't even know those mods existed on jewelry...

High end items are limited by supply not AH. Low end items, the temple has completely obliterated item power curves from previous leagues.

How can you disagree with either of those?

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

It's amazing that in almost 200 posts, not one new argument has been raised.

Its equally amazing that no new response other than read the manifesto, or fear-mongering about ultimate platform destruction if an AH was introduced.

Fact is developers are fallible human begins. It is very likely that they could be wrong about this. In addition, a 3rd party AH already exists, to deny this fact currently is basically laughable. So while I'm willing to concede that an AH might be a bad idea, the existence and success of poetrade seems to counter that.

And finally Bones's point about Diablo's franchise being ruined due to the AH is hilarious at an epic level. Just look at the sales and revenue numbers...they are insane...and if/when D4 comes out, it will smash the arpg market.

So in summary, developer stubbornness isn't something we should celebrate. If you don't change or adapt you die. If you don't listen to your customers, you die, or maybe you sell out to the highest Chinese bidder, in which case your fucking manifesto and path of exile vision mean absolutely zero to me.

TencentGGG or whatever the fuck they are now, has no ability to be on a high horse anymore. Now if you want to eat the shit their shoveling that's on you, but don't expect everyone capable of thinking for themselves to fall in line.