Being a mediocre player gets you nowhere in POE

There's definite design bloat, but I think that's simply a side-effect of how PoE was developed in bits and pieces.

The game design isn't helped by the clusterfuck patchwork plot. The world-building was always there, but I can't really come to terms with the idea that GGG had any idea where the main plot was supposed to go beyond killing Dominus (or hell, beyond Piety).
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The game design isn't helped by the clusterfuck patchwork plot. The world-building was always there, but I can't really come to terms with the idea that GGG had any idea where the main plot was supposed to go beyond killing Dominus (or hell, beyond Piety).


We finally agree on something. Feels nice.

The fact that they had to retcon Dominus into the intro screen is evidence enough that GGG only really planned up to Piety in Lunaris 3/2 in terms of coherent plot.

Act 4 is basically 'we have all these cool ideas for future acts but we might not get another act so better do them all NOW!' Result: a serious mess full of half-explored ideas that they should have saved for later acts.

Act 5 is so damn close to awesome it's not funny, but it's undermined by just how lame Act 4 is and the realisation if you'd gone to the Ascent as soon as you hit Highgate, you could have skipped it. We had no real reason to deal with anything in Act 4 other than Dialla told us to. What was going to happen? The beast was going to awaken? Malachai was going to control it and Take Over The World? None of this is really emphasised in Act 4. It's all just arbitrary encounters and convoluted side quests. Act 5 is much more linear and better off for it, but it's too little, too late.

Acts 6-10 are clever asset recycling but the experience is mostly forgettable with occasional moments of note, like literally exploring Maligaro's guts to find his super-emo self and kill it. Again. And the Solaris/Lunaris fight. That's pretty cool, but I put that down to the music and mechanics rather than it being a significant plot point. Remove those and it's just another boss you had to play Epic-Fetch-Quest to unlock and beat.

And that's probably why a lot of people say the game 'starts' with Maps. Because everything before it is so badly cobbled together it's impossible to care about any of it. You've done something drastically wrong when your only memorable, meaningful antagonist dies a third into your story.
21/05/2018. The day the indie company owned and operated in New Zealand known as GGG died. It is now owned and ultimately at the mercy of Chinese megacorp Tencent.

"Some problems *are* deep, underlying injustices with societal norms requiring a crusade." -- Also Sprach Charathustra
Yeah i see those things as kinda patch up.

I remeber times when game edned ta the doors to Solaris. Then there was Piety as final boss and then Dom. But after killing Dom that tried become god in this false wolrd (as he states this world is only an illusion - he gives us hints that true gods are programmers ;) mind game i like to play) what comes next? Well Malachai that wanted to reshape that world using Beast. Yeah i agree that act 4 is kinda dissapointing really - to short, to shallow from story point of wiev but lest see what Vilenta says to us. We kill Mal to either leave the Beast to die or to take control over it and reshape world on our image. But there are consequences - old Gods awakens and they are entitled to be the shaper ones. And so we take weapon and kill all that are our rival in our goal. But eve if we kill them all we still cannot take place as resahper of world. Maby Shaper is the one and Elder is just reaction from Universe to such events? Dunno.

I personally like acts 6-10 they show Wreaclast from a slightly different point of view and that is fine. I kinda dont like how some gods, that are worshipped by marauder or Haku become just something to kill but whatever.

I wait for next acts. Seriosly there were Necormancers that were defeated by odl Gods and so they should return.

Well GGG have the opportunity to expand into something great but... well if they will use it or waste it - that is the question. We will see :)
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鬼殺し wrote:

A game that encourages oneshotting 'trash' mobs (I fucking hate that term so much!) as the best way to progress rather than focussing down bosses for the loot will almost inevitably make players ask why bosses aren't dying as quickly as trash mobs if the reward for killing them is the same or less than mowing down hordes of mooks.


I also dont like term "trash mobs", but in PoE, it fits perfectly to describe the fact they are meant to be oneshotted all at once. I wish PoE was more like Dark Souls. I finished DS3 just recently, and liked it so much! It's not even that hard as they describe it - actually, it's quite easy (except for some bosses/places in Ringed City DLC). I liked it because it places your SKILL above everything else, while PoE encourages playing like a mindless BOT!
IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504

There is no knowledge
That is not power
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鬼殺し wrote:

A game that encourages oneshotting 'trash' mobs (I fucking hate that term so much!) as the best way to progress rather than focussing down bosses for the loot will almost inevitably make players ask why bosses aren't dying as quickly as trash mobs if the reward for killing them is the same or less than mowing down hordes of mooks.


I also dont like term "trash mobs", but in PoE, it fits perfectly to describe the fact they are meant to be oneshotted all at once. I wish PoE was more like Dark Souls. I finished DS3 just recently, and liked it so much! It's not even that hard as they describe it - actually, it's quite easy (except for some bosses/places in Ringed City DLC). I liked it because it places your SKILL above everything else, while PoE encourages playing like a mindless BOT!


So...how do we explain the 60k+ player concurrency for PoE? Do people enjoy bot play with a huge bias towards unrewarding loot that much?

Maybe theyre not as veteran as us and have yet to realise thats all it is. Lord knows it took me 6 years to finally admit it to myself.
21/05/2018. The day the indie company owned and operated in New Zealand known as GGG died. It is now owned and ultimately at the mercy of Chinese megacorp Tencent.

"Some problems *are* deep, underlying injustices with societal norms requiring a crusade." -- Also Sprach Charathustra
Actually red map content on hardcore is challenging and mindless playing is going to kill you really soon.
If pointing out that a 10% XP punishment is nothing and the people complaining about it have transcended mediocrity makes me an elitist, then that's a sad reflection of what modern gaming has become. That a borderline unplayable product like PUBG became so popular is a testament to the fact that players are desperate for a game that doesn't pat them on the head when they're shit at it. All the things you list as "problems" for new players are exactly the things that attracted me to PoE. I love that the learning experience is cryptic and confusing and I had to look up forum threads and 3rd party resources to get good at it. I love that the game is complicated and yet doesn't vomit tutorial messages on my screen for every little thing. Most of all, I like that it was obviously designed with the hardcore player in mind. The guy (or girl) who theorycrafts on the way to work, spends hours reading up on mechanics and interactions and is determined to overcome the difficulty.

I started playing 2 days before Abyss ended (wow you got me dude, 'grats) because I saw the Bestiary trailer and thought "now here's something I've never seen in an ARPG". There are lots of things in PoE without a precedent in gaming. I can only cheer on developers who've been in this industry for 6 years now and still haven't caved to the torrent of casuals begging them to simplify everything for them. If you can make things more clear for new players without ruining the mystic appeal of finding out stuff for yourself that's great. I'm not against casual players who study the game at their own pace. I will, however, always be against casuals who demand the game be dumbed down to their level of skill and understanding.

Also my "babycore" comment is tongue-in-cheek. I don't mind softcore players who simply don't like HC and prefer to play their own way without bitching. That said, I've never seen HC players whining about chaos damage in Incursions, difficult red mobs in Bestiary and death penalties on this forum. It's always, ironically, softcore players who have the least to lose from difficulty spikes. Those are the "babycore" players I refer to.

PS: Nice Tencent drama signature. I'm already reeling from the enormous impact that investment had on PoE. Literally can't even log into the game without being reminded that GGG are now slaves to Tencent, amirite?
Last edited by ChefoSLR on Jun 14, 2018 8:05:29 AM
As a mediocre player what I find is difficult is when I have a build that I really enjoy playing, but I top out; either because I have reach the limits of my playing skill or because I have reached the limits of my ability to build. One might think you just play for the sake of playing but there is really demotivating to repeatedly fail. At some point I give up and roll a new character. This is probably why I have certain builds that I have played multiple times.

wolf
I'll take "Swords" for two hundred Alex.
-Faux Sean Connery
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As a mediocre player what I find is difficult is when I have a build that I really enjoy playing, but I top out; either because I have reach the limits of my playing skill or because I have reached the limits of my ability to build. One might think you just play for the sake of playing but there is really demotivating to repeatedly fail. At some point I give up and roll a new character. This is probably why I have certain builds that I have played multiple times.

wolf


Me. This is me. I've lost count of the builds I've loved playing pretty much from the get-go that top-out in low maps. At this point, I might remake the build from scratch and play it through again, seeing what drops and if that modifies my decisions. Chances are I'll just declare the character 'done' and try something else.

Someone recently PMed me and asked, with what seemed like absolutely no malice or sarcasm, why someone like the Ruler of Wraeclast wouldn't have higher level characters. I found this a pretty strange query -- in no other game have I been asked that. People might ask how many hours I've put in or which class I like most or my favourite item or encounter, but 'why don't you have higher level characters' was really telling of what people value (or feel they should value) with PoE. I replied, as politely as I felt their friendly query demanded, that I do have one high level character but mostly just lots and lots of mid-levels, because after that either the character gets boring or 'tops out', as you so deftly put it.

I have no idea how many hours I've put in because I don't use steam and a lot of my online time was spent managing my guild or just chatting, but there haven't been many days since March 2012 where I have been home and not logged in until fairly recently, maybe the past year or so. If I've been playing that long and I still content myself with relative bottom feeding, that has to be the very definition of mediocre. But if one has no ambition beyond that and it's just a game...so what? I was, until 3.2, very much not mediocre at enjoying the time I put in. And to me that's all that counts.



21/05/2018. The day the indie company owned and operated in New Zealand known as GGG died. It is now owned and ultimately at the mercy of Chinese megacorp Tencent.

"Some problems *are* deep, underlying injustices with societal norms requiring a crusade." -- Also Sprach Charathustra
"
鬼殺し wrote:

So...how do we explain the 60k+ player concurrency for PoE? Do people enjoy bot play with a huge bias towards unrewarding loot that much?

Maybe theyre not as veteran as us and have yet to realise thats all it is. Lord knows it took me 6 years to finally admit it to myself.

It seems, there are many dumb people, that enjoy it (or get used to it). Sadly, there are no real competitors to PoE, and many choose PoE just because they dont have much choice.
Also, i suspect that a lot of "players" are actually bots... Because PoE is literally MADE to be played by bots.

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Completed 15 ChallengesFilousov wrote:
Actually red map content on hardcore is challenging and mindless playing is going to kill you really soon.

I agree on that, to certain degree (actually, playing HC properly in PoE just means you should stay out of any dangerm because taking risk is never worth it. But not all players can accept hardcore mode, where you lose character with a single mistake, RNG coinscience, IP lag, PC hangout, electricity shutdown, etc. I like playing PC games exactly because i DONT LOSE EVERYTHING from a single mistake. It discourages risk and experimenting, and i like to take risks with significant chance to fail, it's far more interesting than 100% safe gameplay without any risk involved, that makes you fall asleep after 1-2 hours.
IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504

There is no knowledge
That is not power
Last edited by MortalKombat3 on Jun 14, 2018 9:10:29 AM

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