i dont understand new power siphon

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Temeritas wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

It's not.

Skill mechanics, specicially aoe propagation is way more important than raw damage and even base projectiles.

Then tell me, which supports that aren't effectively more multipliers are used regulary on main skills ? Currently the qualifying feature of nearly all meta skills is that they are either ridicolously overtuned dmgwise, have all/most of the utility support gems already build in or get more dmg by using the utility supports.

Which skill is meta, uses utility supports and does not fulfill one of the criteria mentioned ?
I can't think of one, for a good reason. Because as you mentioned aoe propagation is one of the most important features in clearing. As a consequence skills that can either purely stack more multiplier because of their inherent aoe or gain more dmg by adding coverage supports (e.g. LA or TS) will obviously be superiour.

Thats why PS is now a good skill. Before it was useable, but it just lost hard to Barrage(insane ST dmg and scaling possibilites) and KB(extremely good clear, made better by overlapping explosions).

You are confusing single target main skills and aoe main skills. Aoe main skills could not care less about damage multiplier stacking or even the base damage of the gem itself. KB and LA would still be great skills even if they recieved a globally 50% less damage nerf for top end builds.

Every good LA and KB build link is going to prioritize crit consistentcy, projectile count and aoe propagation. Very few of KB and LA links are actually devoted to 'more' multipliers unless you count pierce.

PS got a megatonne of raw damage but that is not what's keeping it from being a great skill. The added projectiles and CC certainly helps a lot but it is far from overpowered and not going likely overtake KB by a wide margin if at all.

As a thought experiment imagine giving burning arrow double it's current damage and 4 added projectiles, it's still going to be crap for clearing comparatively and infinitely worse than barrage for ST.

It's a nice skill. Too bad it's wand-only and will get brutalized by its competition.

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Nephalim wrote:

You are confusing single target main skills and aoe main skills. Aoe main skills could not care less about damage multiplier stacking or even the base damage of the gem itself. KB and LA would still be great skills even if they recieved a globally 50% less damage nerf for top end builds.

Every good LA and KB build link is going to prioritize crit consistentcy, projectile count and aoe propagation. Very few of KB and LA links are actually devoted to 'more' multipliers unless you count pierce.

PS got a megatonne of raw damage but that is not what's keeping it from being a great skill. The added projectiles and CC certainly helps a lot but it is far from overpowered and not going likely overtake KB by a wide margin if at all.

As a thought experiment imagine giving burning arrow double it's current damage and 4 added projectiles, it's still going to be crap for clearing comparatively and infinitely worse than barrage for ST.

How many dedicated ST skills are there though ? I can think of Barrage, BF and MS. All three are horribly overtuned and two of them have a ridicolous scaling with added projectiles. And BF
and MS are also used as general clearing skill in at least 50% of the cases.

http://poe.ninja/challenge/builds

I looked at SC Bestiary and Flashback and there are no other ST skills that are used by 1% or more of the players.

This is only indirectly linked to my main point, but the reason those skills are used besides general ae skills is that they have such a ridicolous dmg potential. And for the cases where they are used as clearing skills they are either ridiclously overtuned(type 1 meta skill i listed) such as BF where loosing an dps increase for more area is compensated by its insane dmg output or the options that increase coverage also increase the dps like it is with MS (mainly wildfire and AC).

Now Looking at the other 1%+ clearing skills, they basically all fall under the types i listed with Cyclone and RF defying the trend because their freedom of mobility adds to their coverage(and well RF deals great dmg). It all boils down to, how many more multipliers do i have to sacrifice to increase the coverage to a satisfying level.

And i never said PS was OP, i said it was viable. KB and Barrage are the ones that are OP, also Barrage is going to be nerfed iirc so that only leaves KB. My issue with PS is that they made it viable by removing the need to add any non-dps supports. With the inherent projectiles, the auto aim and the 3 additional pierce from the tree you are set in regards to coverage. Add the good base dmg, cull, PC on hit and crit multi on top of that and you have a viable skill that can compete with KB in open maps.

Looking at your Burning Arrow example. You just choose the wron modification. If you were to add an explosion instead of multiple projectiles it would instantly overtake LA because of the higher base dmg.

What i'm getting at, and what you also seem to think but we are looking at it from a different perspective, is that the current meta seems to be very restrictive in regards to the skills that can be deemed viable/strong. It all comes down to the simple "formula" i mentioned earlier. You say the good skills are the ones that have inherent coverage, which is true.
But i think the main reason for that is that inherent coverage allows the stacking of more more multipliers. Simply because the base dmg of the skills that need coverage supports isnt high enough most of the time to compensate the damage loss directly or via opportunity cost from supports. Which is why i tried to classify the currently used meta skills in the three "categories" in my previous post. Every skill that doesnt fit any of the categories is basically directly eliminated.