But if you supported GGG on a principled basis of helping an indie company get and maintain its foothold in a very competitive industry, you must be fully aware that principle is now gone.
That's such a small number of people though. Your line about the x number of diamond supporters and y number of gold supporters, whichever thread it was in, and how that was indicative of support of an indie group and their passion, that line is a point well taken. But we don't live in that reality any more. That group of supporters went from 90% of their money to .009% of their money in a hurry.
People give GGG money because they made Diablo 3. That's the new reality, and has been for most of the games life by %. And I think they'll keep doing it so long as GGG continue evolving as they have been.
Another point of yours that is well taken is that from this point forward, players will be supporting to keep Tencent hands off. Again, I don't think anyone really cares outside of the core group you nostalgically speak about. Internet warriors (not you, but the bulk of other noise making) found their perpetually sought after daily quota of outrage all in one place yesterday.
This game will carry on as normal for quite a long time. Beyond that will hinge on whatever the hell 4.0 is.
But it's impossible to ignore that GGG is now part of that overall juggernaut and that the juggernaut is anything but squeaky-clean.
I'm not going to proclaim myself as an expert on China; because, well, I'm not. But how "shady" are their business viewed domestically? Interpreted through Chinese laws? As I see it, they have a government contract to do something that from our perspective, culture and moral seems shady as hell. As I see it, a company has to relate to and follow the laws and culture of the countries they operate in. And I think we can find a billion companies - from around the world - doing "shady" things in China - from our perspective.
I'm just speculating here. While I'm doing that, and having my morning coffee, I can't help but tone this whole thing down to; "how has Tencent influence other 'Western' companies they've bought? How much 'shady' business are they know for outside of China?".
I do see your point, though; you view your money spent as donations, to help an indie company grow legs, and kept donating so they could walk on those legs. Now, they have huge legs to walk through other means. Why should you keep donating? While people like me, who aren't donating, but rather purchasing based on product quality, will keep purchasing.
One thing I want to clarify. I never saw my support as a donation. I've been arguing against that word since 2012. It was a transaction, a purchase. Never anything more, never anything less. The terms were very clear. I knew what I was buying, even if sometimes it was something abstract like a service (help design a unique, for example). Support is support. Not a donation, not an investment. You buy something voluntarily and that money goes to supporting the game and its devs. It's not a difficult concept. This transaction likely won't change in the near future. We just know now who is ultimately bankrolling the whole venture.
It's hard to say how tencent is viewed domestically because, well, China is still a communist country and it's still not always the best idea to voice dissent there. But several mainlanders have posted on this and none have anything good to say about Tencent. But you are correct -- from a Chinese perspective, they're far from the worst. I don't think that means they're not bad, which is the brunt of my argument.
My main contention with Tencent is actually unrelated to games. The moment I see their stamp on a Western movie I know that movie is going to suck. It's going to have shitty editing, at least one pointless Chinese mainland star cameo, product placement out the arse, spotty CG and infantile levels of action. They know their real audience gives zero fucks for things like good writing (not like they can understand English half the time) or pacing. That is a microcosm of how Tencent influences Western creations.
Apply that to something like PoE...well, PoE is already pretty much there. The writing has gone downhill, the game is all about mindless action, and while it only has a little product placement, I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese version doesn't have more sooner or later.
Also, I am still not convinced that Tencent didn't negatively influence Paragon as well. We saw some new heroes that were clearly aimed at the mainland market, heroes that didn't really make sense in the context of a sci-fi moba. A Kpop singer, for example. A whip-using kung fu girl. And my favourite, a complete and total McRee ripoff gunslinger. At the same time, they stopped introducing heroes they knew they'd have to censor, such as a bare-legged vampire chick and a ghostly skeleton type. Oh, and a bare-chested orc drummer. Shit like that is hard to ignore.
There is a video, easily found, of what PoE looks like in China. The amount of censorship is pretty hefty, as you'd imagine. Do you think they'll make material that still has to be censored for China now that Tencent is at the top of their food chain when it's much easier just to choose to make things already China-friendly? Maybe. Maybe 'GGG' still have that level of devotion to giving us that sort of game. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
Now, I do believe Chris believes it when he says that he will retain creative control. We've heard it before though. So we'll see. But never forget that Tencent can fire him now. 80% means exactly that. And I imagine it's in no one's best interest for that to happen. But I'd be incredibly surprised if this acquisition didn't influence future creative decisions, consciously or otherwise. And obviously that could be a good thing, if you're at peace with where the money comes from.
I'm not, and others aren't.
The futility of my stance is starting to set in though. That doesn't mean I don't believe in it or will abandon it. It just means that players' self-interest will win out, as it often does. As you said, you'll keep supporting because you only care about the quality of the product. That is perfectly fine. I care about where that money is going, so I won't support, which is also perfectly fine.
I would be very surprised if there isn't a contract on the table, ensuring Chris' (GGG's) control over certain aspects during the next X years (XX months). But reading this line..:
"
Will Tencent try to change Path of Exile?
No. We spoke to CEOs of other companies that Tencent has invested in
...Didn't really calm my nerves. "We spoke to...?". So, how many contracts are really on the table here, is kind of... Unknown. But as you said, the product will remain, and I think it will keep its path. At least for the foreseeable future.
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
Last edited by Phrazz#3529 on May 22, 2018, 3:47:40 AM
I genuinely believe this will all be good for the game, at least for a while.
If that's all you're worried about, don't worry. PoE is going to get better and brighter yet. That or 'GGG' aren't done pulling fast ones and they'll announce a new game...
But if you supported GGG on a principled basis of helping an indie company get and maintain its foothold in a very competitive industry, you must be fully aware that principle is now gone. While GGG have seemed successful enough to no longer need any 'support' in the same way they did during beta, we now have incontrovertible proof that 'support' is a redundant term in regards to PoE. When you 'support' GGG now, what you'll be doing is ensuring it remains profitable enough for Tencent not to interfere. I find that unsettling.
So if you define yourself as a staunch 'supporter' of PoE/GGG, if that is why you're still here and not just because you enjoy the game from a personal perspective, you very likely had a difficult day yesterday.
And that's what it will come down to. That's the divide. You can see it in pretty much every thread on the matter. It's an irreconcilable difference, because both sides are right in their own way.
I can relate to the mindset of a "grassroots" type investment. I myself was more willing to invest in Poe Over D3 because it was not some major developer but a small independent studio.
But also, let's not pretend things were a magical state of bliss either. Real money trading and botting clearly has had their impact on the economy (as they do in games of this particular nature).
I'm sure a lot if not most of us liked cheering for the little guy. But on that same note, it's clear there's a lot of bitterness now that the product has been successful enough to warrant the attention of a major investor - the lesser investors have much lower influence and are lashing out instead of applauding the success that their initial support made possible.
I'm not saying to welcome the change with open arms - but the level of hate and anger on the forums is far from warranted. People are reacting as if this change has already impacted them for years instead of yesterday. Coming off an unpopular league the vitriol is fresh and instead of a calm and calculated pause in spending, instead its the world is falling mindset.
From what I've seen, it seems to me people have been playing the slot machine too long and after taking a hit now just want to lose it all to justify the spite.
In other words, people were already looking for a reason to quit as their interest fades, and this announcement fulfills that purpose. I know I haven't been here nearly as long as some of you folk, but the fact that I chose this over D3 despite the nostalgia still speaks volumes to me.
If contracts were that ironclad and easily understood, 'contract law' wouldn't be one of the most complicated branches of an already complicated discipline. Like I said. I believe Chris believes.
I also believe a company like Tencent has enough money to legally squish Chris, should a dispute over contract ever arise, like a flea.
Fleas are actually surprisingly durable for their size, it's nigh on impossible to squish one.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.
'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
