Can we just do away with fake dual wielding already?

This is the single worst balance problem plaguing PoE, and that’s a high bar. I would go so far as to call narrowing the meta to ONE playstyle a crisis for the game, and given the petty things GGG has seen fit to nerf in the past it is baffling that they don’t address this. The values on those mods should be globally and retroactively massacred if you ask me (down 10-15% added ele damage max). That way you need at least two to get your “ free Hatred.”

I suppose I wouldn’t mind the existence of stat sticks if they were a competitive glass-cannon option to shields and only very expensive high-roll items could effectively serve as one. But right now there’s just no competition from any other gear setup no matter how many mirror-tier items you have. Not even gonna mention how criminally 2h melee is treated by devs...

GGG, please do something about this! Your game is getting hollowed out by such poor balancing.

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allbusiness wrote:

It also doesn't help that Claw nodes are all clustered together and Reave got a MASSIVE AoE buff

AOE buff is fine, tho. Game is still recovering from the misguided AOE nerf when Chris woke up grumpy one day and decided to delete half the skills in the game by killing their AOE.

Issue is this opieop statsticks. But hey, even if they didnt exist, you can still roll a summoner with vendor-trash gear and faceroll everything in the game without even holding your hands on the keyboard. Devs gave up on balance long time ago, bro.

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GunFinX wrote:

Of course stat sticks are the real problem at the moment. They totally should not address the items that give +150 max to number of spectres or +2000 to max number of zombies; those are not broken.

How do you get those though.

I mean, I wouldn't do away with 'fake' dw altogether. I've done a couple builds using sword+axe, using the axe for one skill (ice crash or sunder, usually) and using the sword for another (viper strike or blade flurry, i believe). They were a couple fun builds, they took advantage of some minor and very intentionally designed stat-sticks (rigwald's weapons, which buff each others' types), and to do away with fake dw would completely kill the fun of something like that.

Idk, maybe if the unused weapons' dps got averaged with the used one it could be okay, make fake dw get penalized for using a low local dps offhand while something that builds to use two weapons with strong local dps would be alright.

But yeah, shaper stat-sticks went way way way above and beyond existing stat-sticks... previously the best you could do was generally like 30% phys as ele or 36% attack speed or some crit mult, something like that. Now you can get more than triple that much phys as ele AND more from a stat stick. Even a single phys-as-ele roll beats all the unique stat-sticks that existed before 3.1.

Those shaper phys-as-ele mods need to be reigned in, they're easily the worst offender, they need to be dropped to maybe 15% max. But that didn't happen in 3.2, probably cuz Chris apparently doesn't like creating legacies the patch after something is introduced (which is why Iron Heart is getting a fated version instead of being buffed).

Ofc it would also help if 2handers FINALLY got something to put in their offhand to give some decent bundle of stats. It's been one of the biggest travesties in this game that everyone except melee 2handers (and staff casters) get something out of their off hand, including freaking bows (cuz, you know, being ranged isn't big enough of an advantage, better give them extra stat bundles over melee 2handers too).

Simple fix: weapon stats of weapons in dual wield setup are deactivated when not used by attacking skill. Bye Bye fake dual wielding.

Are you guys asking for balance to the same group of people who buffed zerphi while they were trying to nerf it? They played poe for 1k hours, they're the experts, be a believer

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allbusiness wrote:

I mean, honestly to be fair even Death's Hand was ridiculously broken on release, and once people realized you could dual wield with sunder it became crazy good too. Fake dual wielding was already an issue PRE Shaper items (to the point where it almost made 2H trivial) but now it really does.

yeah I hear you, deaths hand was certainly the point where even someone like me who likes that fake dual wield is possible because it just opens up more options and mechanics, more possibilities, even I couldnt deny that deaths hand was highly questionable.

the debates were going on before the shaper items, with people saying fake dw was broken, to me I felt like the concept wasnt broken but yes, deaths hand mainly, that was an item that almost certainly needed a nerf in order to make fake dw an option and not mandatory.

All seems like a bit of a joke now right? Deaths hand is so pathetic compared to these shaper items, its gone so far beyond that with these sceptres its hard to even see the point we were at before from where we are now, lightyears beyond fake dws previous state of broken.





imo we need offhands for 2h builds, been saying that for ages, similar stats to quivers, dont let them have any flat defences or block etc. Then stick these phys as ele on shields and 2h offhands. Max of 2 shaper mods on an item, max rolls 15%. Then they need to get back to looking at physical, I think we need a damage herald for pure phys, potentially something very strong for a 25%, maybe even something similarly strong to hatred pitched at a 30% reserve that then nullifies your ele damage the way brutality does. That would be a start.

Maybe a thing with dw, it gets more attack speed and more physical attack right? With the more phys attack damage, rather than give them a flat 20% like they have now, give them 10% per weapon you have hit with recently, so if youre hitting with 1 weapon you get 10%, if your hitting with both weapons ur getting the 20%. Maybe do the same with the attack speed, so you only get half of dual wields bonus if youre statsticking.

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DarkWap wrote:

Are you guys asking for balance to the same group of people who buffed zerphi while they were trying to nerf it? They played poe for 1k hours, they're the experts, be a believer

Can you imagine my first message about zerphi and how it was broken date from 2016

broken mechanic discovered, need nerf? 109 977 life regen/sec
To: _GGG on Aug 7, 2016 7:14:32 PM
Hi , a pvper discovered a broken gameplay mechanic that seriously could break the game.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1706498/page/1


This Imo could break the game.

Now I am sure thsoe guys will exploit this to the end until it s nerfed or deal with so I prefer to send it before streamers get an ear of it lol.




Avatar
Re: broken mechanic discovered, need nerf? 109 977 life regen/sec
From: _GGG on Aug 9, 2016 5:20:35 AM
To: Head_Less
Hi Head_Less,

Thanks for the report, I've passed it on to be looked into.

Best regards,


So you know 2 years to buff it instead of nerf it...
We can assume stat stick will be buffed next years to 100% before they realise it is broken lol

do you think thats the right way to do it tho?

If they want to buff melee skills like this they could change melee phys gem to be 80% more melee phys damage, wouldnt changes like that result in a far more healthy state of play?

the question here is not melee balance vs the game, its internal melee balance within the confines of melee. theres plenty of ways of buffing melee to do more damage that are not "only if u play these 3 skills while fake dual wielding and converting to ele". Thats a fucking retarded state of balance within melee mate.

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LowBudget780 wrote:

Oh no 3 melee skills are competitive now instead of being dumpster tier trash like all of their counterparts and you guys want them nerfed? lol no wonder GGG ignores their own forums.

You realize that stat sticking is so dumb you can literally put on any weapon and kill like 99% of the game?


Because Demi and Mathil are proved that with decent surrounding gear, you can put on a princess sabre or a red beak and call it a day. Considering you can do some silly shennanigans with things like Blood Seeker, I'd say it's pretty dumb the way stat sticking is working currently.