Let's talk about endgame. GGG, this concerns you too.

"

Fair enough. And I agree, this isn't the PoE everyone knows I'm talking about.

As for skill, you answered your own question. Obviously I don't mean what you're describing. Which is indeed the current situation. You seem resistant to the basic idea that PoE can be something other than what it is. That's me, most of the time. Today, not so much. Today I want to imagine a PoE that isn't beyond salvation in regards to how much 'skill' it takes a player to get by.

I do not have the experience or knowledge to provide a solution. That's why I posed this as a community discussion. I wanted to see if a solution is even necessary, and if so, what people would propose. I did say this would be unlike most of my other posts, right?

I see. I hope you get what you're looking for out of this one.

The reason I play PoE is because I see a vast amount of potential in it. I'm not against the idea of PoE becoming something completely different than what it is currently, but... as disrespectful and rude as this sounds... I don't think PoE will ever get to explore that potential as long as GGG is in charge.

"

And if GGG are on track, and this current PoE is what they always wanted, then they willingly sold us early whales a bridge. I need to believe that isn't the case.

I also find it unlikely that this was what they wanted from the very start. Being a casual, I'm not very well informed about the PoE timeline, but I'd estimate some drastic changes in the direction happened/started happening around when Perandus was introduced. Give or take half a year from that point.

"

Anonymous1749704 wrote:

I also find it unlikely that this was what they wanted from the very start. Being a casual, I'm not very well informed about the PoE timeline, but I'd estimate some drastic changes in the direction happened/started happening around when Perandus was introduced. Give or take half a year from that point.

You have 36 achievements. You are not a casual. You might be newer to the game than some, but you are not a casual. You can call yourself if it helps you feel better about things but you'd be objectively wrong. And I don't blame you for feeling that way. Something external gave you that impression. Whether it's a comparison to even less casual folk than you or whatever, I don't know.

But you, friend, are definitely not a casual. You don't get to wear this crown of crusty old shit I'm afraid.

Removing (making it negligible) penalty will allow to zerg exp, on top of bosses, where now people with more time to play win, instead of those with more knowledge and skill. Perhaps the penatly exists to incentivise people to build more defensive, play slower and more careful? And if you don't - you'll die and lose exp.

And what's the point mentioning connection all the time? Games can not and should not be balanced around someone's shitty internet.Different story when it's in game lags and bugs - these should be addressed of course

"

Nubatack wrote:

Removing (making it negligible) penalty will allow to zerg exp, on top of bosses, where now people with more time to play win, instead of those with more knowledge and skill.

I can't tell if that's a vindication or vilification of how things are now. It just seems negative overall, which isn't much help in this case. :(

"

Nubatack wrote:

Perhaps the penatly exists to incentivise people to build more defensive, play slower and more careful?

If so, it's failing. All it's doing is incentivising people to play the same shit day in and day out. I covered that. And I'm all for more defensive, slower play, but that's not what the death penalty is encouraging. Reflect damage encouraged that and look how that ended up.

"

Nubatack wrote:

And what's the point mentioning connection all the time? Games can not and should not be balanced around someone's shitty internet.Different story when it's in game lags and bugs - these should be addressed of course

Just one more factor of frustration that I think GGG should take into account. They can't control it, but they can consider it when balancing the game.

Thanks for your input! :)

Change exp distribution maybe (idk what to properly call it), where you get more exp for higher lvl maps, bosses. Reduce exp for low lvl maps, add diminishing returns for running same map over and over again (but that would anger "strand lovers"), or add additive exp bonuses for running different maps (and killing bosses in them)

"

"

Anonymous1749704 wrote:

I also find it unlikely that this was what they wanted from the very start. Being a casual, I'm not very well informed about the PoE timeline, but I'd estimate some drastic changes in the direction happened/started happening around when Perandus was introduced. Give or take half a year from that point.

You have 36 achievements. You are not a casual. You might be newer to the game than some, but you are not a casual. You can call yourself if it helps you feel better about things but you'd be objectively wrong. And I don't blame you for feeling that way. Something external gave you that impression. Whether it's a comparison to even less casual folk than you or whatever, I don't know.

But you, friend, are definitely not a casual. You don't get to wear this crown of crusty old shit I'm afraid.

Eh, perspective. To me, when it comes to challenges, the difference between casual and non-casual is the same as the gap between 36 and 40.

I've gotten to lvl 95 twice with the shittiest PC you'll ever see, playing with all options at minimum 1280x720 resolution and enjoying 5-10 fps boss fights, net connection not too stable either, and i can say i'm playing kinda meta. Dying to lag spikes, low fps etc can be quite triggering but i know it's not GGG's fault, and i still find fun grinding currency OP items and other stuff. I do agree with you that leveling is just a mtter of skipping the things that could potentially kill you. I play EK nova inquisitor which sucks really hard for bosses. When i try to level up i've learned that whenever abaxoth (that big ass beyond demon) spawns you need to GTFO, boss is not rewarding at all to fight in terms of xp or loot AND is insanely diffult to beat in high tier maps. I do the same with some breachlords, mostly Esh and Tul. If there are nasty mods i simply stay away from them, even if they shower me with splinters that costs 0,1c in the market it's obviously NOT worth the risk since you can get easily one shotted and loose xp that took you several hours. Only Chayula feels rewarding to at least damage a bit for extra splinters. I've learned a lot of lessons while trying to level up. Being really careful when opening strongboxes, and such. Also skipping boss fights, doing low tier maps etc,etc. I don't think that way of leveling isn't a problem, the problem is that it's THE ONLY WAY of leveling.

From my perspective as someone who has a level 93 SC character and plays casually (as in I haven't even played 4 hours this week and I've never gotten a temp league character to 70) but nearly has the passive tree memorized due to how many times I've looked at it and made skill trees for all sorts of characters...

The penalty does discourage actually trying new stuff out even on a character that can almost certainly handle it but might get killed while learning a mechanic or something like that. I intentionally leveled to 90 I think it was before I tried even regular Atziri on this comparatively crappy Pillar Juggernaut. Died several times but since then I can usually do it pretty well if I'm awake enough to even just kinda pay attention. Trash was piss easy, Vaals were tame, Trio was a bit messy and I died the first time but got through it, and then I died the rest of the times to Atziri just getting used to her stuff. Had I been close to 91 I would have lost more than half my experience to that level just learning what has become one of the easiest end game fights.


Why is getting to 100 so damn meaningful anyway? For most builds the difference between 90 and 100 isn't going to be so huge that you'll actually say "I need to get to 100 to finish content better." A lot of the time the passive tree side of the build is done with 85 or maybe 90 levels anyway and the rest is getting gear upgrades and learning to play better. From there the game is your playground though it takes way too much investment to start feeling rewarding regarding gear or experience.

How do you approach endgame?
I approach endgame rotating builds in and out every 10 maps.

What do you like about it?
I like that there are a bunch of different maps to play on

What do you not like?
That despite all the maps only a few are actually worth playing. The current endgame encourages only running the same few maps over everything else. Exploration is punished for some reason.

Do you not even approach it at all?
No, But i am getting to the point where I do not want to play it anymore.

Do you like the death penalty?
Yes and No.

Yes in that it is a consequence of playing recklessly (in some cases).

No. in that all it does is promote a "safer" play style.

Do you think it is a good thing?
If it was used properly then yes.

I was hoping they would do some sort of grave maker thing where you die you lose EXP but can go back to where you died and get back a fraction of it back. If you die again while in route you get a new grave marker (you still lose the EXP and only get back a fraction from what you lost following the second death) at that spot and so on and so forth.

A bad thing?
I am not a fan of kill it before it can do anything. All it does is reinforce this style of play. Kind of makes all enemies and their mechanics worthless.

What sort of endgame would PoE need to have for you to enjoy it more often?
An endgame where the running more different maps actually means something.

Honestly when GGG announced the shaper/elder thing i was expecting some type of faction type deal. Where the more shaper influence i spread the more the elder sends in goons to attack me in maps and shit like the elder controls beyond bosses and sent them in to random maps to kill me or take away the shaper influence i was spreading. the same for the shaper. If i decided on neither then Kitava/Atziri/elder god/the guy who puts cheese in the crust/something sends Vaal bosses to kill me just for using the atlas or remove all the influence from both shaper and elder. I figured the more influence i spread the tougher the enemies (not to say you can still have more magic/rares anyway through map mods). It would start out with increases to magic mobs (white maps starting at tier 3), then increases for rares mobs (yellow maps starting at tier 6), then champions (like warbands/leaders of warbands) (yellow/red maps starting at tier 9 and not going higher than tier 12) (worse then rares weaker then beyond bosses/rogues), then finally increases for vaal bosses, rogues and beyond bosses appearances (red maps all red maps even that one red map that is 100% ass you know the map I am talking about that really shitty red map with the thing and the guy that does that other thing).

As for top bosses the main goal would be to kill the shaper/elder/kitava (or whatever) and their guardians. Once you kill them (shaper/elder/kitava (or whatever)) you can reset your influence again. You would be able to keep the completed maps that you did before but you can choose who you want to fight for again or not. So if you are sick of shaper influence you kill elder and start it up again or spread elder influence and roll with him and "The revolution"

Honestly I would like the endgame to be more centered around rewarding a player for sticking to certain maps and/or rewarding them for exploring the atlas.

Also I wanted to be able to collect the heads of bosses i kill and have them stuffed and mounted on league totems or used a fixture in my hideout.

Or do you just love it exactly as it is?
I really do not like the current form. I do not want to feel like i am being forced to kill shaper or elder. I do not want to be forced into choosing a side. I do not want to feel like if i do not play the endgame in a certain way I am being penalized for it. When GGG first came out with the atlas of worlds it looked really promising until it literally became a few shaped maps only. It makes the entire idea pointless. They have only made it worse with the elder/shaper thing. I want to play the endgame the way i want not the way i am being told. Every time i run into a wall like that I stop playing because it does not feel worth it. I do not want to kill the shaper or elder. I do not want to sextant block, i just want to run a bunch of maps. Chisel, alch, corrupt (sometimes) and go.

Just catch some Pokemons and it'll be K .