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So here are some simple facts for YOU:
- You have an advantage over other players that is extremely difficult to attain and cannot be duplicated within the game environment.
- Your advantage is a cheat to make the game easier. Similarly, finding an extremely potent and unfairly overpowerful skill or passive combination is a cheat (and thus why GGG fixes and nerfs these, such as stunlocking which was recently fixed).
GGG may allow it. This is the same as when they say we are allowed to abuse anything we find working incorrectly within the game as long as we report it and give them a chance to choose whether to fix it or not.
Fact: If it makes the game easier than intended, then it is a cheat, and regardless of whether it is allowed you are a cheater.
If it does NOT make the game easier, and in fact makes it harder (neutral is an unacceptable answer as there is no possible way the game is perfectly balanced around the challenge of controlling and maneuvering multiple characters by a single player): why in the hell would you do that?
The fact is people DO do this, and despite the "challenge" it represents, once you have overcome that challenge through your 3rd party programs, your multiple PC's or expensive single machine, or even through your sheer skill level - you have gained an advantage over other players that they cannot duplicate within the game environment.
By every definition of the concept, even your own, you are a cheater.
Cheater.
So tell you what, you go ahead and keep on cheating. That's fine. I don't think its wrong to cheat if it is what you enjoy.
But you cannot deny that you are what you are.
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On a side note: multiboxing goes hand in hand with botting and other HIGHLY frowned upon and ban worthy methods of attaining the SAME GOALS - to gain an unfair advantage over other people.
You cannot deny that either. You can cloud things with your funky descriptions but in the end it IS INDEED WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
Good day to you sir.
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Posted bySkouros#0070on Feb 28, 2013, 8:58:40 PM
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kashakosha wrote:
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valarias wrote:
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enshin wrote:
Solution, Remove quantity scaling as party bonus. These multiloggers can get boned.
I agree remove the quantity or introduce /players, those are the best and most viable solution to this problem.
I'd back this idea if you could tell me what the point of grouping would be if you removed +quantity per person.
I feel like i've said this almost 100 times now,
Bosses, maps, etc.
you could duo and set /players with a few friends, which is what i see party as a feature for.
Moreover if you play just to steal loot from your partymembers, what makes your suggestion any better than /players x?
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Posted byvalarias#5872on Feb 28, 2013, 8:59:05 PM
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Zalm wrote:
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imtheshane wrote:
The net effect on the economy is zero. None. It's no different than six different people playing six different characters.
With this...I will disagree....
I will defend the right to multibox as its not against GGG's rules, but it DOES affect the economy as there is more currency and items incoming than normal.
Now if they have ladder resets once a year like D2 did, I would say who cares, as the economy is reset eventually anyway.
I'm actually hoping they do like 3 month ladders, 6 months, a year. Whatever.
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Posted bySL4Y3R#7487on Feb 28, 2013, 8:59:30 PMBanned
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imtheshane wrote:
have 6 notepad windows up, and type a sentence into one of them. That sentence is replicated, in real time, to the other 5 windows. Nothing is automated, you still have to type that sentence into one of the windows for it to appear in the other five.
The opposite of automatic is manual, yes? You didn't type anything into those other 5 windows. The replicator automated the process for you.
It's funny that we are using vocabulary and definitions to try and sidestep legal vs. illegal.
So if GGG said, "Replicating actions to those alternate characters is illegal." that would be pretty definitive yes?
"In short, we don't care if someone's a millionaire -- if that person plans to degrade any member of the community or act in such a way that people will feel unwelcome here, then that person can fuck right off." - Charan, GGG Volunteer Moderator
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Posted byGamer1975#0451on Feb 28, 2013, 8:59:33 PM
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imtheshane wrote:
Appreciate your effort but you stated thinks that already are in common mind.
Main discussion which let to this one (more or less not related) was the upcoming of multi-logging over the decision to take a public group and farm as efficiently (hard to manage).
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Posted byNightmare90#4217on Feb 28, 2013, 8:59:58 PM
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flab wrote:
Well, you do still have added safety and clearing speed.
And you also have to share one person loot count with more than one person. Back again to multiboxing I go, because then I dont have to share my single person loot with 6 people.
I would rather share a whole pizza with 6 people than to try to share a single slice with 6 people.
'It is good to contact a moderator if you feel someone is being a twat' Charan, Forum Moderator
Sometimes, we have to cross a ditch.
Sometimes, we have to cross an ocean.-Rhys, GGG
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Posted byZalm#4445on Feb 28, 2013, 9:00:29 PM
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Zalm wrote:
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imtheshane wrote:
The net effect on the economy is zero. None. It's no different than six different people playing six different characters.
With this...I will disagree....
I will defend the right to multibox as its not against GGG's rules, but it DOES affect the economy as there is more currency and items incoming than normal.
Now if they have ladder resets once a year like D2 did, I would say who cares, as the economy is reset eventually anyway.
Maybe I should rephrase this to:
There is no difference between one player playing six characters and six players playing one character. The net effect on the economy is the same.
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Posted byimtheshane#7350on Feb 28, 2013, 9:00:49 PM
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valarias wrote:
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Alienchild wrote:
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Zalm wrote:
But everyones problem that multiboxing isnt automating anything. So it isnt against the ToS
multi-boxing using multiplexers (hardware) or 3rd party software like ISBoxers simply relies on keystroke and mouse movement/click REPLICATION.
This is not automation.
Of course GGG can simply declare that it is but it would be very difficult to precisely define what they mean because your existing key strokes and mouse movements are being filtered and modified by 3rd party software as it is.
Take a simple example. I move my mouse little bit, there is a corresponding small movement of the game cursor on the POE client.
I now set the DPS sensitivity of my mouse and make the same small movement of my mouse. The result is a much larger movement of the game cursor. This is perfectly legal and yet the behaviour of the mouse cursor has been modified and enhanced automatically by 3rd party software.
Once you start arguing that replication is automation you have to start addressing situations like this.
This and many other reasons are why Replication is not Automation.
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artifical keystrokes VS software settings, argument invalid.
What to you think is talking to the POE client "Real" mouse clicks? They are software events. Simply 1's and 0's being sent to the POE client. Nothing "real" about them.
Define what you mean by "real" as opposed to "artificial" on a computer?
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Posted byAlienchild#1272on Feb 28, 2013, 9:01:20 PM
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Eyesonme wrote:
first of all, Multiboxing by gamers does not do much harm to the game, apart from forum witch hunt.
Its when it is used abusivly, to make real world profit, we all know what happens in D2, and worse in D3, and WoW and the list goes on...
Those multiboxers (we are talking about gamers, streamers, not farmers) even when using repeaters are still playing the game, despite how many clients they are running at once.
Its the BOT that will eventually destroy the economy.
Integrity of the game is ruined by Multiboxing?
Not reall,the game economy is ruined, when some people decide to spend real money to purchase in game item/currency thus supporting the whole "farming industry" and encourges BOTing.
you will know when integrity of the game is ruined, starting from gamers insulting each other on the forum with no apparant reasons.
The OP posted some valid points, I am kinda in between of this Multiboxing thing, open more clients on single PC or on multiple PC or Laptop for mule, rushing Alts for Fun or whatever (when you don't want to spend money on slots) is ok to me, I do it in almost all the game, I don't see why not, when you can afford more subcription, or have more copies of the game.
Using automated script, or repeater key are the area I do not wish to touch, which is the true multiboxing. To me It kinda defeats the purpose of playing the as intended after a while.
once again, its a personal perference, I don't understand why people are so stress about the fact NOT everyone thinks alike, you don't have to agree with them, nor should you insult them.
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another obvious multi-boxxer saying it doesn't ruin the economy.
oh wait, if you have 2.5x the orbs everyone else does, that doesn't make it so that you can overvalue thus inflating the prices rare items? Oh that's right it does, it is such an obvious advantage that will ruin everyone elses experience because now if they want that item they'll have to gather MORE currency to get the item which will sell for more BECAUSE OF YOU.
Sure, it could be argued that would happen anyways with rare items and as more currency is amassed, unfortunately that advantage still would belong only to those who used this method thus making this the only time effective way to play the game.
Did you even read my post? by the way I play on HC and my current alive character is lvl30 ish fire witch, so even I want to I can not pull it off.
And if i have lvl80ish character Ill be doing Maps instead of this.
Last edited by Eyesonme#1041 on Feb 28, 2013, 9:02:46 PM
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Posted byEyesonme#1041on Feb 28, 2013, 9:01:34 PM
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flab wrote:
Well, you do still have added safety and clearing speed.
I would be willing to bet most of the people playing this game are in "softcore" wtf does anyone care about safety? what good is clearing speed if youre still wearing garbage you picked up in Normal Coves?
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Posted bykashakosha#5743on Feb 28, 2013, 9:01:52 PM
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