Risk versus Reward in PoE: Bosses

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Orbitalx wrote:

1)Sometimes. I would say it depends on the boss. Some of the reward is being able to do t15 bosses deathless. You feel the accomplishment. Sometimes you get plus 2 map drops from them and that feels good. I always do the bosses. I very rarely die. The only ones that I think are annoying are the ones that have multiple phases. They take waaaaay too long. I could definitely understand why people would skip those. They are not time efficient and are dangerous for not really that much reward.

To be honest with the (recent?) powercreep i don't really feel satisfied when killing 99% of bosses deathless even with incredibly hard mods.
I don't really remember last time i felt accomplishing something with a boss kill maybe long ago during warband league or something like that. But well that's just me - others opinion on the powercreep subject may differ.

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Orbitalx wrote:

2) I think bosses should give a lot more experience. I don't think they should give crazy loot. If you get 2% exp on a map, then you should get 1.5% from map and .5% from boss or something like that. That would entice people to kill the bosses.

Uff, that would make it painful for a lot of builds which are not boss oriented.
Or even self-found, where you just don't have that much firepower to instakill boss in 2 sec.
Then risking 0.5% xp for a possible death is a no-go but it would effectively slow down your lvling speed by 25%.

It would also re-introduce the problem they just tried to address (pretty well IMO) with monster density. You might well be running only very short maps with easy bosses in the end and basically rush boss only. Assuming you have enough currency to support that, it would then be XP-losion (pun intended).

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Siliarus wrote:

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Orbitalx wrote:

2) I think bosses should give a lot more experience. I don't think they should give crazy loot. If you get 2% exp on a map, then you should get 1.5% from map and .5% from boss or something like that. That would entice people to kill the bosses.

Uff, that would make it painful for a lot of builds which are not boss oriented.
Or even self-found, where you just don't have that much firepower to instakill boss in 2 sec.
Then risking 0.5% xp for a possible death is a no-go but it would effectively slow down your lvling speed by 25%.

It would also re-introduce the problem they just tried to address (pretty well IMO) with monster density. You might well be running only very short maps with easy bosses in the end and basically rush boss only. Assuming you have enough currency to support that, it would then be XP-losion (pun intended).

Neah, they just need to make the map grant boss EXP depending on how many "monsters remain".

So if you kill only monsters, and just don't want to deal with the boss, as that is the actual dangerous enemy, you should get lesser EXP from the map (at most 50% of the total map EXP). The same for just killing only the boss (at most 25% of the total map EXP). No buts and no questions asked.

If you go for at least 50% of the monsters and manage the boss, at least 15% of the map EXP should come from you killing the boss.

If you go slow and kill >75% of the monsters or just fully complete the map, you should deal with the boss at your own pace, and as such, at least 33% of the map EXP should be granted by the boss, if not more.

You should have incentive to kill bosses, and deal with the "real checks" regarding your build, or you should be penalized in your EXP gain.

Simple as that.

Now we all know that some bosses need further balance adjustments, and introducing such a mechanic should also be accompanied by those necessary improvements, but mainly, a boss should also give EXP closer to the danger it presents versus your character.

And bosses should never go down in <30 seconds, especially if they have various phases. Bosses should never get "one shot". Plain and simple. Sure, you could do them absurd damage and "burst them", but they should never, ever, die in one hit.

in my opinion, bosses are disappointing in terms of loot and experience reward. but just adding free loot or experience to them would skew player progression rates across the board and impact the economy, too.

maybe it is possible to take some of a map's loot and experience away from the regular monsters and add it to the map boss instead?
imagine it like this: when the game generates a map, it just removes some percentage of the monsters from the map - let's say 20% - and adds their loot rolls and experience reward to the map boss instead.
this way, the total loot and experience per map would stay the same as before, but killing the map boss would now be a lot more rewarding while skipping bosses would be a significant loss of profit.

then again, i'm not sure if GGG even wants to change how things are. maybe they are fine with bosses not being very lucrative to kill, we don't know.

IMO, the #1 thing they need to do is make map bosses appropriate to the role of map boss. Kitava is great as an act boss, but he's pure shit as a map boss. Just stop cut and pasting act bosses into the map system. It's horrible design because you're fundamentally hamfisting content into inappropriate game spaces. IT's a total square peg in a round hole. It's cool for things like act bosses and 'meta bosses' like guardians, atziri, elder and shaper to have a lot of phases and transitions, but regular map bosses should not. Get rid of all the part 2 import bosses, as well as older offenders like map Maligaro.

Once that's done, then find a way to make map bosses rewarding. I'd say the best way to go is to make map bosses drop a new currency that is exclusive to map bosses. There can be some RNG in the ammount of the new currency the boss drops, but there should be a guaranteed minimum result.

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Siliarus wrote:

Uff, that would make it painful for a lot of builds which are not boss oriented.
Or even self-found, where you just don't have that much firepower to instakill boss in 2 sec.
Then risking 0.5% xp for a possible death is a no-go but it would effectively slow down your lvling speed by 25%.

And why builds, that cant kill bosses adequately, shouldnt be penaltized? During leveling, you meet bosses on regular basis, and have to kill them to advance further. So why in endgame (maps) everything should be different, and killing bosses shouldnt be rewarded, at least?

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Siliarus wrote:

It would also re-introduce the problem they just tried to address (pretty well IMO) with monster density. You might well be running only very short maps with easy bosses in the end and basically rush boss only. Assuming you have enough currency to support that, it would then be XP-losion (pun intended).

It's just a balance issue. XP reward for each boss can be tweaked appropriately. And "Twinned" mod shouldnt double XP reward for boss, obviously. I know, that GGG are very bad at balancing, but you know, poor balancing can kill ANY good idea, so it isnt actually an argument against changes.

Well we should wait and see how it will goes in next league for now - isn't it ? :) We don't have full informations yet maybe something in upcoming design will improve a bit that -

I wish there were more bosses like the enraged rhoa bosses, and the vault boss. I like the mechanics were you can get more loot by meeting certain criteria.

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Shabob wrote:

I wish there were more bosses like the enraged rhoa bosses, and the vault boss. I like the mechanics were you can get more loot by meeting certain criteria.

Yup i would welcome some more like that - no guaranteed reward but it's more interesting than entering room - BOOOOM - 3 items on floor.

1) 2x rare drops at t15 map with a risk to lose 30 minutes of playing exp? No, thx.

2) Bosses MUST have a higher chance of map drops and more exp reward. That's it