Risk versus Reward in PoE: Bosses

Well, i'm taking some references from the other games.

How about making map bosses drop some sort of tokens that can be exchanged for rewards?
T0-5 bosses have a 20% chance to drop 1 of these tokens
T6-10 bosses have a 50% chance to drop 1 of these tokens
T10-13 bosses have a 80% chance to drop 1 of these token
T14 and 15 bosses have a 100% chance to drop 1 of these tokens
T16 Guardians have a 100% chance to drop 2 of these tokens
Endgame bosses can drop varying amounts
Atlas completion will increase your chances to get additional tokens.

These tokens can then be used at Zana, you can buy maps from her and she sells maps that you have cleared already. She can even sell maps that you have yet to unlock but charges more for those.
Other uses includes ability to pay for Zana mods and gambling for random maps.
As Zana levels up, she reduces the cost required.
A divination card can also be introduced to acquire these tokens.
These tokens may or may not use a bag slot but can be stacked to 1000 for each slot they take up (inb4 before stash arguments and p2w yada yada)

tl:dr
introduce a map-only currency that can only be dropped by map bosses to buy map-related stuff from Zana.
I have an Alien pet.
Last edited by kelongngu on Jan 22, 2018, 11:54:07 PM
"
Miská wrote:
"
MangoBaron wrote:



Vualt's golem is the only Map boss that's even worth running more than once because of the Div cards on the map + the treasure piles making up for the time spent to kill him.


This is interesting. What if bosses give some kind of extra loot after you kill them. Similar to Vault. Would maybe be enough to make them worthwhile to kill again.


I agree with this and I think this is specifically the reason why most folks only run vault. You would not believe the amount of times I got asked to just shape vault and forget about everything else since it's more profitable. The issue with many maps is also the obstruction/shape, especially the ones with many dungeons and 6 different ways for directions and bad divination cards. Some maps have literally no incentive, like maze. Horrible to run, bad rewards, bad divination cards, absolutely no reason to run it. Vault on the other hand? Gives you good rewards, good amount of mobs, more stacks to click for items at boss and excellent choice in cards.

I do not plan to shape personally but I will certainly make a list of maps NOT to run any more especially if even the cards they drop suck.
1) Nope

Killing bosses is just a lackluster ATM. And a dangerous gamble to add on top of it. Especially any boss dealing chaos damage isn't worth it except once for map completion (except CI build ofc).

Loot-wise they are worse than blue strongbox most of the times. The only one where it might be worth are specific endgame bosses like Uber Atziri or Shaper. And many people won't even reach those.

Boss tactics all boil down to "kill it before it uses skill". WTF is that?

2) Here are my 0.02$

For me they would need to remake the fights to make it so that high dmg helps but doen't win you the game. Along with that they need to tune down some mechanics cause you will actually be running around avoiding stuff (like uber atziri, if you cannot instakill her, you are bound to get him by something which will likely kill you unless you are another stupid Kaom's user).

After that they might have several options - lootsplosion is one, but I ain't fan of that. There is much mess on the ground as it is so I would propose:
- special materials which you then exchange/trade into map OF YOUR CHOICE! (no unique maps, no guardians)
-> this would improve the SSF state as well as getting certain map on atlas would be farmable and you are no longer at the odds of RNG

- Have some valuable collection of uniques dropped by bosses only, the higher the tier, the better the chance. But still farmable even on lower ones.
-> uniques can be picked from most used in the previous league or something like that, so that the table changes periodically and is always desireable
-> obviously exclusive uniques as those from atziri would not be on this list

- Have a kind of treasure room (aka lab style) spawning/opening after boss kill. Or even bunch of special strongboxes. This would happen once in a time.
-> A bit like Elder does, you would get this in Atlas on "random" map
-> This would force you to actually do less desireable maps/bosses and be able to get rewarded
-> Rewards can differ but the 'treasure room' should be common enough to make it worth it, say every 5th map would spawn the treasure room on your atlas (say you can have one at each map color at a time)


That's what I can come up with from the top of my head. Then there is also XP issues but I wouldn't boost that really. Although truth be told most bosses are skipped because of the probability of death which means -10%. Boosting XP won't fix this issue though.
Any "reward" would stop being a reward shortly after they added it. Anything that is too common would quickly just become background for our loot filters to filter out.

The problem isn't that the boss drops are not rewarding... it's that at some point the game stops being rewarding. Boss drops are just the symptom you're picking on.
1. No!

2. The answer is not just more quality loot, It just makes for a farm boss.
   As I_NO said the XP needs to be much greater as an incentive to want to kill the boss.
   Higher chances to get a RED MAP DROP for tier 8+ bosses.
   Make there be a chance to get a 6L gear drop from a RED MAP boss.
   Make there be a chance to get GEMCUTTER'S and CHAOS orb drops from a YELLOW MAP+ boss.
   Make there be a chance to get DIVINE and EXALT orb drops from a RED MAP boss.

The key to boss drops is we have to see a noticeably better drop of above items to incentivize the boss battle. If GGG just makes a change and states "arena bosses now grant a chance to drop xxx orb" but the drop rate is like our chances at getting an Exalt to drop in the wild then it is worthless. At least the drop chance needs to be as high as what we now have for Chaos orb drop rates in the wild.

Edit: If GGG is making gear that have the extra gem supports a permanent game feature (moving to standard at end of Abyss League) then making it so arena bosses will drop these types of gear would definitely increase our desire to take them on. This would (assuming the Abyss gear that have extra gem support stats are going to be permanent game items) be a much better way for GGG to go instead of just more unique drops for which we don't need (for example I have 7 of The Whispering Ice Vile staves in Standard League).
"You've got to grind, grind, grind at that grindstone..."
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but poor QoP in PoE is the father of frustration.

The perfect solution to fix Trade Chat:
www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2247070
Last edited by Arrowneous on Jan 23, 2018, 8:09:01 AM
Thing is, if the boss reward is so high that clearing the map becomes secondary to boss farming, we again have a problem of imbalance. So if there is a boos to the boss, it should be influenced by how much of the map you cleared before killing the boss.
"Into the Labyrinth!
left step, right step, step step, left left.
Into the Labyrinth!"
"
Mythabril wrote:
Thing is, if the boss reward is so high that clearing the map becomes secondary to boss farming, we again have a problem of imbalance. So if there is a boos to the boss, it should be influenced by how much of the map you cleared before killing the boss.


The thing is the arena boss reward wouldn't be so high as to only want to do boss farming. Obviously GGG will have to be tweaking this throughout the challenge league that they make the change. The more I think about it the more I like the idea that GGG take the Abyss gear drops that have gem supports and make them permanent but we can only get these gear drops from arena bosses, champion rares, and Beyond spawns.
"You've got to grind, grind, grind at that grindstone..."
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but poor QoP in PoE is the father of frustration.

The perfect solution to fix Trade Chat:
www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2247070
"
Shagsbeard wrote:
Any "reward" would stop being a reward shortly after they added it. Anything that is too common would quickly just become background for our loot filters to filter out.

The problem isn't that the boss drops are not rewarding... it's that at some point the game stops being rewarding. Boss drops are just the symptom you're picking on.


Yea that's why I started with making the boss fights look like more than a 2 second encounter.
Then you can proceed with adding the not-so common stuff into loot table.

"
Mythabril wrote:
Thing is, if the boss reward is so high that clearing the map becomes secondary to boss farming, we again have a problem of imbalance. So if there is a boos to the boss, it should be influenced by how much of the map you cleared before killing the boss.


Please no!
That could mean you accidentaly find boss room first but you then have to backtrack the whole map (those sewer-like maps for instance) just to clear mobs. That's a big no-no!

But I do get your point, however note that some builds focus on clear speed or even MF and those will ever profit from clearing trash, not bosses. Therefore making bosses tough so that they can't easily down them will mean those people will only farm trash.
While other, building boss characters or all-round characters with lower clear speed can still profit by doing trash in a slower pace yet being able to handle bosses without many issues (yet not by means of instakilling them). If that makes sense.
Loot? XP? Maps? I don't care.

But; we DO need a reason to do bosses besides completion of the maps. As it is now, there's almost no reason to do bosses. A small chance of a map drop? And a even smaller chance of this map being worth picking up? And maybe one rare item getting past your not-so-strict loot filter?



Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
You play this game because you enjoy the feeling of satisfying a want. You want maps. You want a 6L. You want orbs. When you get these things you feel good.

What you're asking for here though is to remove the want and replace it with an expected outcome. If you would come to expect red maps, you'll no longer feel that want and satisfaction. You are asking naturally that GGG help grant you what you want... but you don't realize that you're asking them to remove the want itself. Without want, this game is pointless.

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info