[3.1] J U G G of the Forest - Uber lab, Guardians, Mapping viable

Neat build! Do you think it could work with a bit less travel on the tree? It reaches for Elemental Overload and Primeval Force so I wonder if there might be a more efficient solution for the damage. EO seems nearly mandatory for Molten but is Primeval?

Perhaps a different offhand? Molten Strike will use any offhand so perhaps a different skill like Sunder/Flurry/Reave that benefits from an odd offhand? That brings us in line with the new DW dual-wield stat stick items, but doesn't synergize with Grelwood's projectile bonus. A shield could be in order and the new Shaper mods on Evasion shields aren't bad. This similar build https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2061902 uses as well as two auras that you do not: Anger and Herald of Ash.

Frost Blades has similar mechanics and could be used as a complimentary clearing skill.

I tried with Nagumahu Frost Blade on switch, but I don't think it worth losing the 160% armor, Iron Reflex and Point Blank. Likewise with a shield. I just did more damage and have more physical defense dual wielding Grelwoods. Molten Strike when support with Ancestral Call is still good enough for map clear.

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Neogeo75 wrote:

I got another question though. Why did you prefer slow projectiles support for the green slot? It seem that point blank support can give way more damage without slowing down the projectiles. Did I missed something that said slower projectile deal more damage?

Grelwood Shank has innate Point Blank, that's why neither PB support or tree node is used.

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tainium wrote:

1. Do you think it could work with a bit less travel on the tree? It reaches for Elemental Overload and Primeval Force so I wonder if there might be a more efficient solution for the damage. EO seems nearly mandatory for Molten but is Primeval?

2. Perhaps a different offhand? Molten Strike will use any offhand so perhaps a different skill like Sunder/Flurry/Reave that benefits from an odd offhand? That brings us in line with the new DW dual-wield stat stick items, but doesn't synergize with Grelwood's projectile bonus. A shield could be in order and the new Shaper mods on Evasion shields aren't bad.

3. two auras that you do not: Anger and Herald of Ash.

4. Frost Blades has similar mechanics and could be used as a complimentary clearing skill.

1. Tree - it is a stretch, I agree. Although The main reason to go down to Primeval Force is that it is next to Celerity (eva + mov speed, thats what this build is about), it's likely the best ele weapon cluster AND it gives 10% chance to ignite. In case somebody'd use only 5 offcolor chest and couldn't fit Chance to Ignite into it, it's very important to have that 10%.

2. Current version of the build is mostly scaling flat elemental damage. If I were to:
a) use shield - I'd probably go with a rare shield with % increased fire dmg, life and whatever there is BUT
b) dual wielding - attack speed DW bonus, ambidexterity cluster too. If I were to use another offhand weapon it would have to be similar base attack speed (1.8+) and there's not much that would help in this build. I will soon try getting a shaper's foil, I'll let u know how it goes.

3. Auras and some other things - I've changed a couple things some time ago, an update is long due because I've been busy recently with irl stuff.

4. Complimentary clearing skill - sounds good, doesn't work. On 4l no other skill will clear at a reasonable pace. Given the amount of projectiles the build gets, MS with AC covers pretty big area. Additionally with so many hits from MS it's easily able to run nonleech maps.

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marsun wrote:

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3. Auras and some other things - I've changed a couple things some time ago, an update is long due because I've been busy recently with irl stuff.

Looking forward to this info.

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marsun wrote:

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4. Complimentary clearing skill - sounds good, doesn't work. On 4l no other skill will clear at a reasonable pace. Given the amount of projectiles the build gets, MS with AC covers pretty big area. Additionally with so many hits from MS it's easily able to run nonleech maps.

I put Frost Blades into my 6L (MS and FB share the same 6L so both are 5L) and it is working pretty well with no other modifications. I use FB to clear and MS for rares and bosses. Given how well it is working without other modifcations (most of my gear and tree and a mash-up of two other builds right now) I feel hopeful that this will work.


You path right past Iron Grip but don't take it. Is there a reason other than saving the point?


I have some elemental noob questions, if you don't mind teaching me. I was reading the damage conversion wiki https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Damage_conversion which leads me to believe we can boost Molten's damage with physical nodes instead of reaching for elemental nodes.

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converted damage is affected by modifiers that apply to be both the original damage type it was converted from, and the new damage type that it was converted to.

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MS gem:
Deals (120-146.6)% of Base Damage
60% of Physical Damage Converted to Fire Damage

If so, then we could do all the scaling in Marauder's area without going so far into the Dex zone. We'd lose some evasion and movespeed, as you point out, but could perhaps be overall stronger and more efficient. But I guess we'd then have better luck with auras instead of adding flat fire damage with jewels?


May I ask why you don't consider LMP/GMP in your considerations for the green socket? It will be a rare QotF that has no greens.

For red gems, why don't you consider Elemental Damage with Attacks? I know a 4th red gem is pretty tough to get on QotF but it seems worth mentioning.

QoL question: For the blue gems, would it make any sense to use an Increased Critical Strikes support so that we crit often enough to not need another source of crit like Orb of Storms? Not that it is a good idea, I just wonder if it works like that.


For the offhand I'm still DW'ing both Grelwood's. Have you considered its brother Beltimber as the offhand instead of (or in addition to) the weapon swap? I think a nice Elder sword like your character currently wields is likely best.

Here's a PoB for a modification to your tree. It isn't better, just different. It trades some DPS to get max life over 6K and an extra jewel slot.

https://pastebin.com/UMcmYeai

I don't like traveling for Elemental Overload but a survey of similar builds shows that they all take either EO (Grelwood variants) or Primeval Force (Oni-Goroshi variants). Do we need both in this build for the DPS? But we don't have Oni-Goroshi's DPS (and crit) so I guess we still need EO. PoB is quite sure that EO is the biggest boost on the tree for us.

The builds that travel East to Primeval Force don't take Celerity like we do so we have an added incentive to go there. I can't find a way to avoid so much travel on the tree while still getting these two requirements.

I implemented those mods and tested it out. Lost all my tankiness :( Feels dangerous in general and red Elder one-shot me several times over.

1) Scaling physical damage isn't really useful for this build since it's using Immolate and lots of flat fire on jewels. The 50% of converted physical damage is negligible.

2) Iron Grip - I just didn't think about it, never used that node. It might be worth taking, testing to be done.

3) With up to 14 projectiles already, using LMP/GMP could actually reduce dps instead of increasing it. Simple maths:

With 7 projectiles (MS + 2 jewels) GMP gives you 57% more projectiles while reducing their damage by 26%. Assuming that around half the projectiles hit the target it's about 15% more dps.

With 14 projectiles (MS + 2 jewels + enchant + 2 swords) GMP gives you 28% more projectiles while reducing their damage by 26%. Assuming half projectiles hitting the target it's ~5% LESS dps.

Overall the only support that is comparable to Slower Projectiles could be Faster Attacks, but that's purely dependent on other gearing choices.

4) In case you had RRRRBB QoTF links would be MS - Multi - AC/PEN - EDWA - Immolate - Conc
For RRRBBB QotF it's MS - Multi - AC/PEN - Immolate - Conc - ChanceToIgnite

5) You should never use Crit Strikes support in your main setup if you're NOT a crit build. Usually EO is not even necessary for map clearing and on bosses it's really easy to just keep OoS up for that.

6) You can check out the character on my profile if you want to see what I'm actually using. Don't really have enough time recently to write the updates down.

Thanks for the feedback. I've learned a lot from you and your build.

I'm just not an Evasion player, apparently. I can't survive hardly any red bosses since I changed from my Armor variant. The movement speed is nice. The Grelwood Evasion->Armor experiment just hasn't worked out for me and my playstyle :(

POB show that added cold damage support give more DPS than slower projectile. Is it glitched? Did slower projectile actually affect Molten Strike projectile speed? Wiki said no.