This fucking reddit post is making trade 820 into a paranoia zone

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TheAshmaker wrote:

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Chrom wrote:

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NukeFonKillazz wrote:

I mean OP is right GGG wont do anything about it they deffend scammers at all cost they dont allow us to expose them on forums or on reddit or ingame this is a free scammer game

That not true.

Scamming is against their policy; you can report people to get your stuff back and they do punish people for it.

"If" this is true GGG will take action.

Actually you are full of it. GGG does not ban because of scaming and they do not restore items under any circumstances. They have no way of determining if a scam even legitimately took place for items let alone possibly agreed upon services. Go ahead and try, GGG will not help you.

No, they have and on times int he past when people complained the forums the community has told the same as I said they don't allow blatant scamming because it would make for a toxic game. These posts get deleted be support so there is no trail of them.

In the tickets I've open they basically said they'll do it because it was an abnormal event.

It's pretty impressive to see a player base that is so far gone that they actually support people scamming others.

Also challenges should be challenges, not just exercises in RNG.

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Akutare wrote:

It's pretty impressive to see a player base that is so far gone that they actually support people scamming others.

It's a half-baked version of the sorts of skulduggery and shenanigans we saw in Eve Online fairly regularly...minus the incredible roleplay behind the scams and the dupes, which genuinely did legitimise it to some extent. Without that justification, it's just players being arseholes to each other.

And that is probably GGG's greatest achievement when all's said and done: a spectacular capacity to turn otherwise decent people into temporary arseholes despite GGG not being arseholes themselves. Maybe it's a byproduct of making the true successor to the Diablo legacy instead of evolving the genre towards something that doesn't encourage hardcore selfish behaviour...which might make for a better game experience but isn't necessarily an authentic oldschool Diablo experience.

1.) The ends do not justify the means. And anyone would be kidding themselves if they think otherwise. Karma is a bitch. ;-)

2.) GGG's challenges are sometimes grossly unbalanced due to RNG. GGG isn't directly to blame for causing this sort of scam (those abusing the scam are to blame). But that doesn't have to stop us from throwing a little shame on GGG now and then for unbalanced challenges, as this is a perfect example.

3.) Just ignore this challenge instead of opening yourself up to scamming to complete it. Why do you need 40/40 any ways? So you can show off that last totem piece to yourself in your own hideout? People visiting your hideout to trade or group don't care if you have one or not.

4.) No one needs thousands of chaos in a temporary challenge league anyways. It all gets dumped into Standard in the end. Just enjoy the league and earn/grind what you need to get where you want. Too often players spend 99% of their time, churning through 99% of their in-game currency, trying to make their characters 1% more perfect.

I had a good laugh reading that reddit.

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The_Scourge wrote:

No, that argument doesn't hold water, sorry. Even free to play players of this game so many of us financially supported 100% voluntarily have the right (and I think duty) to air their issues provided they are civil and constructive. I don't think draegnarrrr sounds that upset at all: I'm not seeing allcaps, an abundance of swearing or insulting, threats to quit or any other indications of being 'very upset'.

The idea that you should present a lower level of complaint against a product that you have access to entirely for free doesn't hold up? Even if you chose by your own free will to purchase their products? I'll disagree but logically and as stated, everyone has a right to their opinion.

I also disagree and that anyone who states a company deserves a large group of people to antagonize them definitely seems slightly upset. Obviously I was being facetious in regards to how upset he was.

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And he or she is 100% right. This does land squarely at GGG's feet for making challenge conditions something you can purchase *and* for making the spawn so rare people *are* going to just buy them.


This is just another facet of GGG's hubris when it comes to trading and PoE: they're really proud of how prolific it is, without considering that not everything is prolific because people really like and enjoy it. Cancer, for example.

When and if GGG implement a robust trading system, then maybe including trading in the league challenges should be a thing. But certainly not before. This sort of scam, and it absolutely is a scam, was inevitable. And it's not even new. It's just another form of bait-and-switch we've seen for years now, using a little bit of the game's HO manipulation flexibility against itself. Oh so clever...

A company that has a single free product who's primary revenue is getting people to purchase assets by using said product...is encouraging people to use that product more by making it difficult. I need to insert an image of an individual scratching their chin, head cocked, staring 45deg into the sky.

I don't agree with people scamming others nor do I agree with how this company handles instances of this behavior. But that is not what the individual I quoted is talking about. Not once did he air grievance with that topic and what you happen to be pointing out. His entire post was his dissatisfaction with the difficulty associated with the "challenges" in this free video game. From a company that makes it's revenue by encouraging people to play their entirely free product more in hopes they will purchase some kind of digital asset. I need that image again.

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I don't know what sort of response GGG have made but it wouldn't surprise me if it were something as arbitrary as 'removed the ability to place Hideout objects over the waypoint'. They're *that* fiercely proud of these tradeable challenges, which just beg to attract scamming. There is a point at which 'Caveat Emptor' no longer applies, and I'd argue that point is when GGG themselves encourage people to be reckless, impatient and ultimately allow themselves to be deceived when it comes to trusting strangers in the game.

And?

Should I start inserting analogies on how poor service generally leads to customers not returning. I'm sure people on this very thread receiving poor unacceptable service DAILY from various facets in their life...gas station, restaurant, bank. Yet here we are complaining about a free video game that lacks policy on people with a low moral cloud.

Oh, you thought I wanted to make this a conversation?

Shit. Obviously I was being facetious too. :)

I find it odd that you'd expect me to read between your lines when you failed to read between theirs.

Ahanyway, sorry to have wasted your time. I don't really disagree with you, at least not enough to take this any further.

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The_Scourge wrote:

Oh, you thought I wanted to make this a conversation?

Shit. Obviously I was being facetious too. :)

If i wait till after 4pm I have a greater probability of being serviced by the younger teller at the bank. It's time.

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cipher_nemo wrote:

1.) The ends do not justify the means. And anyone would be kidding themselves if they think otherwise. Karma is a bitch. ;-)

2.) GGG's challenges are sometimes grossly unbalanced due to RNG. GGG isn't directly to blame for causing this sort of scam (those abusing the scam are to blame). But that doesn't have to stop us from throwing a little shame on GGG now and then for unbalanced challenges, as this is a perfect example.

3.) Just ignore this challenge instead of opening yourself up to scamming to complete it. Why do you need 40/40 any ways? So you can show off that last totem piece to yourself in your own hideout? People visiting your hideout to trade or group don't care if you have one or not.

4.) No one needs thousands of chaos in a temporary challenge league anyways. It all gets dumped into Standard in the end. Just enjoy the league and earn/grind what you need to get where you want. Too often players spend 99% of their time, churning through 99% of their in-game currency, trying to make their characters 1% more perfect.

There's the point I think. They put the final aesthetic reward at 36/40, giving people flexibility regarding the last few they push for. But for some, 36/40 isn't enough. Since 40/40 is a thing, they'll go for it. And that's fine. It's the whole 'there's a mountain, someone's going to climb it, and it's gonna be me' mentality. If you build it, etc.

It's not really down to you or I saying 'just don't do it' when you look at that mentality. Who are we to tell people whether or not to climb a mountain we personally have decided is not worth the effort?

That mountain is effectively a matter between GGG and those who want to climb it. And for whatever reason, GGG always put at least one obstacle in there that is *begging* to be abused by scammers and lowlifes. Do GGG really not have the foresight to realise that any challenge that can be overcome with upfront payment (or rather, offered) is ripe for exploitation of impatience or frustration? After all this time, I think they're aware of it. I also think they're happy to accept the possibility if the risk thereof means they can put in a challenge that forces players to do 'new things' based on the league gimmick.

Rarity of the Lich, in this case, is the issue. I've even heard guildies say it's just not worth it. GGG have two options there: make it more common as a spawn, or remove it from the challenges list (retroactively -- not going to happen, but in lieu of 'not putting it in in the first place'). Making it more common reduces the challenge and is also something they can't or shouldn't really do mid-league, as it devalues the achievement for those who've already done it.

But eh, it's an old argument at the heart of things. This whole 'trading for achievements' business. I don't think GGG are going to stop anytime soon. They're just that in love with death the economy ant-farm.

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The_Scourge wrote:

It's not really down to you or I saying 'just don't do it' when you look at that mentality. Who are we to tell people whether or not to climb a mountain we personally have decided is not worth the effort?

That mountain is effectively a matter between GGG and those who want to climb it.

True. We can certainly tell others "hey, it's not worth it", but at the same time more power to those who plow on though to 40 and claim it's worth it for them. :-)

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The_Scourge wrote:

And for whatever reason, GGG always put at least one obstacle in there that is *begging* to be abused by scammers and lowlifes. Do GGG really not have the foresight to realise that any challenge that can be overcome with upfront payment (or rather, offered) is ripe for exploitation of impatience or frustration?

I honestly think the community as a whole spends exponentially more time analyzing these challenges than GGG ever spent on planning out ALL of the challenges each league. I wouldn't be surprised if Chris and team just threw some good-sounding challenges and RNG stats together in one meeting and rolled with it. After all, we have re-balancing almost every single big patch/update, and that includes RNG re-balancing for challenge leagues. Speaking of that, my prediction: both Abyssal Depths openings and encountering the Lich deemed too rare and tweaked in near-future Abyss patch.