Can we have an uber-urber lab?

Coming from someone who has to deal with almost constant both PC & net lag, I am wholly against buffing the difficulty of any of the Labs. T_T

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LaiTash wrote:

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Bhaaly wrote:

I am against it. Not only a lot of players despise lab but making it endgame on level of uber atziri would mean that actually very few people would even go there. There are more important tasks to spend man-hours on.

How come more endgame content is not important enough?

Well the endgame content that people actually reach is far more in need of changes. And honestly the lab is good enough, it didn't even change too much, because different to the other lab, there weren't many changes to the uber lab and the only massiv buffs to players since then was the last 2 ascendancy points... which you get from there (and paragons... but they suck).

Actually with the Double Dipping Poison endless ES builds the Uberlab was actually a lot easier. ES was easier in the lab anyway, since it is worth less for trap damage than life and as an occultist most traps couldnt even kill you^^.

So the Uberlab is just as easy/hard as it always was, the issue is that the Uberlab gets insanely easier for some builds once they finished it due to getting their ascendancies. The only way to change that would be to make the first run of the lab easier and the next runs harder. There are also still massive difficulty gaps between certain mekanisms.

I think the only change to the endgame lab they did was capping the charges during Conduit to 10 instead of 15. Otherwise the Endgame lab is unchanged.

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Emphasy wrote:

Well the endgame content that people actually reach is far more in need of changes. And honestly the lab is good enough, it didn't even change too much, because different to the other lab, there weren't many changes to the uber lab and the only massiv buffs to players since then was the last 2 ascendancy points... which you get from there (and paragons... but they suck).

Actually with the Double Dipping Poison endless ES builds the Uberlab was actually a lot easier. ES was easier in the lab anyway, since it is worth less for trap damage than life and as an occultist most traps couldnt even kill you^^.

So the Uberlab is just as easy/hard as it always was, the issue is that the Uberlab gets insanely easier for some builds once they finished it due to getting their ascendancies. The only way to change that would be to make the first run of the lab easier and the next runs harder. There are also still massive difficulty gaps between certain mekanisms.

I think the only change to the endgame lab they did was capping the charges during Conduit to 10 instead of 15. Otherwise the Endgame lab is unchanged.

Not many changes to uber lab? GGG nerfed Izaro while buffed a lot player inside uber lab with possitive effect only darkshrines. I don't remember dying this league even once to Izaro while before 3.0 i died at least once per day with very tanky character.

And as lab runner i can cofirm this changes myself just by looking on my builds.
Before 3.0 i had to play super tanky Jug build, 200k dps, 7k life, def flasks and auras/curses to be able to farm full uber lab (Full uber lab means all negative darkshrines and fully buffed izaro)
Very expensive gear about 40-50ex (could reach even higher numbers)

Now i theorycrafted (and tested on standard with items possible to get during league) Slayer build 1kk dps, 4 times more attack speed (faster leap slamming) 5k life 0 def auras/curses nor flasks and i wasn't able to die. I even fully charged Izaro and let him hit me with his special attacks and still nothing, 0 rips. Nowadays traps are far more dangerous than Izaro (but with slayer asc. i solve this problem - maybe 2 deaths to traps so far in this league as Jug.) Super cheap build, like 15ex? (most expensive item 6l starforge but with 3.1 update i can use shaper/elder sword or tabula rasa for 6l)

All I want is bring back challenge to lab as something OPTIONAL (only for lab lovers, no reason for others to run this lab).

or you know, decouple ascendancy points from all labs and make the labs as hard and rewarding as they can possibly get for those tomb raider and mario enthusiasts inside poe....

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Regulator wrote:

or you know, decouple ascendancy points from all labs and make the labs as hard and rewarding as they can possibly get for those tomb raider and mario enthusiasts inside poe....

Yepp, exactly my thoughts also.

I would like to have some more ways how to make the lab harder and profitable. Like something to add Spirit for Izaro for extra Key

Or to have opt-in to open map which would consume 2 Offerings and it would spawn 2 izaros :)

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Marxone wrote:

I would like to have some more ways how to make the lab harder and profitable. Like something to add Spirit for Izaro for extra Key

Or to have opt-in to open map which would consume 2 Offerings and it would spawn 2 izaros :)

Simply "more difficult Izaro" is not what i meant. We have more than enough bosses to kill now, and more are coming in 3.1.

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Not many changes to uber lab? GGG nerfed Izaro while buffed a lot player inside uber lab with possitive effect only darkshrines. I don't remember dying this league even once to Izaro while before 3.0 i died at least once per day with very tanky character.

The Darkshrine effects are the only ones. Did you even look at the changes? Yes Izaro got nerfed, but hardly any of those changes affected Uberlab and it was mostly the setups people skipped anyways. If you just search for Izaro in the Patch nodes there is hardly anything in there and I would argue that the massiv nerf to Chill actually by far outweights the Darkshrine effects if people even look for those.

Izaro never was too hard with most of his mekanisms since the way he dealt damage was very straight forward. If you die less after doing more labs that is pretty much the effect of getting more experienced of something. I personally think pre 3.0 was actually easier, considering that Izaro with Temp-Chains, Enfeeble and Chill was basically crippled and you could just stand there and laugh at him. I have to admit that I hardly had any time during Harbinger, but according to the patch logs not much changed and I'm not sure you can still kill him with one Flameblast due to the changes to the removal of double dipping.

So I assume people dont actually want a harder lab just a new challange. Because there isn't much room to make him harder, he is already able to oneshot people with an autoattack if he gets the wrong buffs on him and you lack defenses, which is not too unlikely for people going in there for the points. What they could do is add to the variety of mechanics that can trigger or give him new weapon sets with different abilities. Because Izaro didnt get any changes in the Uberlab besides the Conduit one (he also did not get the massiv buff to HP that some map bosses got either). But if people feel he is too easy now, they should have felt so before, because considering the power of certain builds he definitly was not stronger compared to the player.

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I would like to have some more ways how to make the lab harder and profitable. Like something to add Spirit for Izaro for extra Key

Or to have opt-in to open map which would consume 2 Offerings and it would spawn 2 izaros :)

Yeah that is a better option. Just give players more different ways to make him harder. Because right now if you have a fight with bad mechanics, you might not be able to do him with 3 keys, because the mechanics counter your character. So on the other hand you dont want to make the basic fight harder, because there might be a huge power gap between 6 and 8 point ascendancies. Giving alternative ways or more different mechanics would shaken things up without making the baseline much harder.

🙏 plz don't make life harder for players like me 🙏

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ykbks wrote:

🙏 plz don't make life harder for players like me 🙏

How such a lab would make life harder for you?
That would be exactly same thing as Shaper or Uber atziri. There is nothing gated behind them. You would not get anything (character progress related) from making 5th uber-uber lab(5th lab, we or at least I don't want any changes to already existing lab).

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Emphasy wrote:

The darkshrine effect is major change. It's like saying "but GGG only double life of players inside lab, Izaro is still as hard as he used to be".

Izaro now is a joke. I can use only one budget gear with something that could have been consider "not enough life" before 3.0 and cannot die. It's not about experience. Izaro now cannot one shot you no matter what, his best hits are pathetic, u can just face tank him and that's all.